Last race of the season

[1984grandnat]

Wish me luck, all. Saturday is the final race and last chance to turn some REAL numbers! Alky injection is complete and tuned, and have seen just over 20 psi on 93 octane (still no intercooler, of course)! Plan to go all-out this time, trying a few different chips and some SERIOUS boost.

I am curious to know what everyone thinks is an absolute maximum level, as far as boost and timing. Assuming no knock and race fuel (over 100 octane), does 25 psi boost with 23 or 24 degrees timing seem like too much? I would like to see a 12.xx second pass before the car is retired for the winter.

Have heard that it is "knock" that kills head gaskets, not boost. On the other hand, I've also heard that the engine ceases to make power over 20 psi with the stock turbo. If you guys have some personal, documented experience with combinations of boost levels and ignition advance, please let me know. Would like to make a memorable "killer" run this weekend, so let me know your best advice.

Thanks.

P.S. Congrats, CrazyGN on YOUR killer run(s)!!!!!!

 

[mycarsucks]

I definately wish you luck.

I didnt know that alky was that effective on the hotair cars. If it were I would have ordered a kit long ago. You wouldn't mind posting your combo would you??

 

[1984grandnat]

COMBO

Stock block, heads, cam, turbo, posi rearend, tranny.
87 ECM and various custom chips
Walbro pump w/8-ga homemade hotwire kit
Elec fan conversion w/ecm control
Blocked TB coolant lines
160 degree stat
Stock leaky headers, 2 1/2 Hooker duals w/no cat
Kenne Bell Ram Air Kit
Adj fuel press reg
Stock injectors
Homemade alcohol injection kit

Currently tuned with 19 degrees timing, 20+ psi boost, around 40+psi fuel press, alky set to come on at 10 psi boost. Using 50/50 mix denatured alcohol and distilled water.

Ran 14.47 with 27 degrees timing, LOTSA octane, 14 psi boost, and no alcohol. Had boost control issues and car didn't seem to like that much timing. Could only run 10 psi with pump gas with this chip!

Changed chip to 19 degrees, could run 12-14 psi boost on pump gas. With 19 degree chip and alky, has hit OVER 20 psi boost on 93 pump gas, with wastegate bottomed out and lotsa boost creep, hehe! Adding bleed valve to increase boost even further once the race fuel is in.

Alcohol and lower timing chip has made a WORLD of difference! This car is downright SCARY on the street. "Stab and steer" takes on a whole new meaning!!!!!!

 

[TType84]

remember at noble, I told you what would happen if you tuned it

my next paycheck goes for a downpipe. yess.

 

[6pack]

Good luck, Jared!

 

[crazygn]

My set up is not the same as yours but its not tuned ether. I can run 20-24 psi and 40-43 psi fuel press with the vac off and i get no knock, but thats with half 93 and half 110. I say run it hard if you get the knock back off . I would think you should be safe at 20-22 but put a little cam 2 in to be safe . Iam not sure what a stock turbo is good for.


Good luck

 

[mycarsucks]

So, how did it go.

 

[crazygn]

Yea how did it go i've been waiting to see some times .

 

[1984grandnat]

Run #1: 14.95 @ 90.83 2.257 60ft
Run #2: 15.26 @ 84.77 2.285 60ft (lifted due to knock)
Run #3: 15.30 @ 88.76 2.375 60ft
Run #4: 15.40 @ 88.88 2.193 60ft
Run #5: 15.62 @ 86.07 2.353 60ft

well...a little disgusted with the Buick at this point...'nuff said.

 

[crazygn]

Dont give up buddy, it looks like with some work on the 60' and a little more tuning your times will drop a good bit.

 

[1984grandnat]

Tuning?????????

I wish I knew where to start on tuning. For some reason, I can't get any data from T-Link, laptop will make a connection and seems to read data as it's happening, but will not save any info from the run. Anyone else had this problem? ECM is already converted, but still 84 MAF and coil module (87 coil). Replaced ECM connectors, too.

Stock block, heads, and cam. Stock injectors, turbo, headers (cracked), and up/down pipes. No cat, dual Hooker exhaust. KB ram air kit, adjustable fuel press reg, Walbro pump, hotwired. Electric fan conversion and alcohol injection system. Adjustable wastegate rod and boost bleed valve. Access to custom chips with almost any timing and fuel adjustments needed.

Fuel pressures that have been tried range from about 42 psi to 50 psi. Boost levels between 17 psi to 24 psi. Timing from 19 to 27 degrees. Tried running with alky on and off. Anything over about 22 psi boost resulted in engine miss and sputter, especially after half track. Seem to be getting a little tranny slippage, too. Also, never got any knock on the gauge.

Looking back, maybe a little too much fuel pressure (especially with straight 108 octane)? Maybe will try around 36 or 38 psi fuel pressure and 19 degree chip with about 18 to 20 psi boost? Shouldn't need alcohol with this octane level. Maybe get the tranny inspected and shift kit installed, and at least get the headers welded up and exhaust leaks fixed.

Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? If anyone has ANY other suggestions, PLEASE RESPOND and let me know what you guys think.

PS - Amazing how a car can feel so much better on the street and then just can't seem to turn the numbers at the track, huh?

o well

 

[cool 84]

You need the 87 MAF to run the 87 computer. It will pick up considerably just from using the right MAF. FP looks too high. Tranny slippage can cause knock. With the header cracked, it will throw the BLMs off and unless you have a chip that locks the BLMs to 128 at WOT, it will affect performance.

 

[crazygn]

Cool84 has it right on the numbers , lower the fuel press , get a 87 maf or did you get a chip burned for the 84-85. They say it can make the car run rich and lean with the wrong maf.

But for sure , fix the exhust leaks they are killing your performance. You will never get it to run good with the leaks.

good luck

 

[1984grandnat]

Did the ECM conversion, already had 87 coil pack, with 84 coil module, chips are burned for 87, but still using 84 MAF.

I guess this is a bad combination?

 

[crazygn]

How does it run with the 87 ecm, you need to find a 87maf , this will help alot. And did you change the chip for the module for the 85ecm to the 87 ecm. I had to do this to mine i think the chip was for the module so i could run the 87 ecm and 85 module.

I found a 30,000 mile 87 maf for 120.00 , lot of money but should get one.

 

[1984grandnat]

I didn't know there was much of a difference in the coil modules. I am sure the chip is set up for the 87 module. Should I upgrade to the 87 module too?

I feel that this car should be capable of running at LEAST consistent 14's (probably 13's with the mods I have), but I just can't see how these changes are going to increase performance THAT much.

Hell, I'm willing to try anything at this point, hehe!

 

[crazygn]

If you have the 84-85 module you might want to check the chip out , i had to pull the little chip from the 85 ecm and put it in the 87 ecm and run the 87 chip the bigger chip of the two. If you still have the small 87 chip and the 85 module this could be a problem you might want to ask one of the smart guys on here.

help me out on this one guys. smaller chip of the two should be changed right if your using the 84-85 module, true.

 

[FJM568]

The small chip in the ecm is called a calpak...The only time it is used is if somehow the big chip got zapped or you have a problem with the ecm, the car will then run off the calpak...It will probably run like crap, but that is why they call it limp home mode...

Ignition modules and coil packs won't matter between the 86/7 and the 84/5s...If you use the 86/7 coil pack and ignition module on the 84/5s, you need to use either the adapter harness or rewire the plug on the the 84/5 harness...

Unless the big chip is burned to use the 84/5 MAF with the 86/7 ecm, you probably are running pretty rich...The 84/5 MAF calibration is different than the 86/7...Either change the MAF to an 86/7 or have the chip reburned to use the 86/7 ecm with the 84/5 MAF...Joe Lubrant can do this or maybe even Jay Carter(I think Jay has done a few)...

On the 5 runs that you had listed a few posts ago...what were the rest of the stats on the runs...(i.e. 330', 1/8 mile e.t. and mph, 1000' et, etc)...You can tell by the times if you are running out of steam on the top end or slow on the first 1/8 mile, etc. with more info...

If you are running the 87 chips, try running about 38-40# fuel pressure with the vac. line off...Whose chip are you running, BTW??? Hotair cars seem to like a little less fuel pressure with the 86/7 chips...

Get Shawn's (GSandGN) email addy...He is in your area and can probably help you out with custom chips...

Hope this helps...

 

[1984grandnat]

I'm using the cal-pak from my original 84 ECM. Before I did the conversion, I was told that this would work fine, so I left it as is. I am currently in search of an 87 MAF, so if you have any suggestions in this area..? GM or Aftermarket..?

 

[1984grandnat]

Yes, I know Shawn very well, but unfortunately he is limited to what he can do on my hotair car, at least until I get things converted (MAF). Right now, can't get any info from T-Link, but maybe that has to do with the MAF?

A few more run stats:

14.95@90.8 2.25 60ft 9.60 1/8

15.26@84.7 2.28 60ft 9.52 1/8

15.30@88.7 2.37 60ft 9.81 1/8

15.40@88.8 2.19 60ft 9.84 1/8

15.62@86.0 2.35 60ft 9.99 1/8

Tried to consistently launch with 2 to 4 psi boost. Didn't get much (if any) wheel spin (using posi rearend, McCreary's, and pinion snubber). Only saw knock on 2nd run, lifted at 3/4 track. First two runs aren't true, because we found that the fuel press regulator wasn't receiving any boost to it's vacuum port, only vacuum. Changed hose to a boost/vac source, so that it would richen the mixture properly, but maybe didn't lower fuel press enough to compensate, huh?