Looking at an 83 Regal, need some advice please.

[Xamot]

Hello all,
So I went to look at an 83 Regal yesterday. It's dirty and needs some work, but for what the guy wants for it, its a good deal. The problem i have is that I can't tell the difference between the 4.1 & 3.8 it's definatly one of them. I took the air cleaner and it has a 4bbl on it.
My plan, if this works out, will be to build a "semi-clone" Sport coupe with some 82 GN flair to it.
I have read enough to know that the parts between engines can swap, but I'm not sure if there is an advantage to one over the other. Any advice would be very appreciated.

Mike

 

[jpratt]

This site might help you in your question http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/blocks/blockguide.html

 

[ek02]

Look at the L/R (drivers) side of the block from underneath and it will have 3.8 or 4.1 cast into the block near the bellhousing. The casting numbers are just above. If it has a factory 4 barrel manifold with a Quadrajet, it is probably a 4.1.

 

[Xamot]

Okay, so I talked to the guy again today. This is the story he gave me. His uncle worked at a dealer in Tennessee detailing cars. An older couple came in and traded in the car and his Uncle called him to come and look at it. His uncle purchased the car for him and he is only the second owner. The title is dated as being issued in 1989. The car had a 3.8 with a bad knock so he got a 4.1 and put it in. The car has rust in the driver's floor pan, I can touch the carpet from underneath the car, and the rear bumper. Everywhere else is rust free, trunk, doors, rockers etc. I bought the car for $600. I'm storing it at my buddies shop who is going to weld in a new floor for me. So now the question is what are my options for turbo-ing the 4.1?
I'll break down the engine and replace what's worn and put new berings and seals everywhere, so while i have it open I'd like to put in what I need to so that it lives a good long time.

And thanks for all the advice guys, I'll double check the website you threw me so I can be sure that the engine is correct to the story.

Mike

 

[dr_frankenstein]

whats your plans turbo wise............

modern intercooled action? or draw-thru madness?

 

[b4black]

Sounds like a great deal.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do this:
http://www.beforeblack.net/blowthru.htm

Pistons are the only concern, but it you manage knock well, the stock pistons will survive.

I'm not sure what year Buick started putting the knock sensor on the 3.8 2-bbl. I'd find out if you have one and if it's working. If you do, that's a big plus.

 

[Xamot]

Thanks for the link Rich. Yeah, I'm going to start off with a basic DT system. I had read a little bit on the guys who boosted V8s, and that is an attractive option. But I'm not sure if I want to go that far. As far as getting started on the turbo goes, has anyone tried the q-jet off of the Pontiac 301T? It's just a thought so far, but it being set up for this it maybe an option. Any thoughts?

 

[Turbo6inKY]

Thanks for the link Rich. Yeah, I'm going to start off with a basic DT system. I had read a little bit on the guys who boosted V8s, and that is an attractive option. But I'm not sure if I want to go that far. As far as getting started on the turbo goes, has anyone tried the q-jet off of the Pontiac 301T? It's just a thought so far, but it being set up for this it maybe an option. Any thoughts?

My thoughts are it would be cheaper and easiest to swap in a modern 5.3L LS series motor from a 1998+ Chevy truck.
If you really want V6 turbo, It'll be cheaper and easier to grab a turbo 3.8 take-out the next time one shows up on here. Turbocharging with a carb is a pain in the butt.

 

[Xamot]

Thanks for the Advice inKY, but I'll have to respectfully disagree with you. I know a few guys with Turbo T/As and they are very helpful, and the cars move pretty good. That's why I asked about the set-up.
As for cheaper, not really. I already have a complete engine to start with, I'll just need to aquire the rest and set it up. Granted I make it sound easier than I know it is, but that's the gist of it. To buy an EFI turbo set up, I'd need to do plenty of work, wiring, ECM, in-tank pump and pick up a 109 block. Purchasing all of that is going to be at least double of what I'm looking at for a DT system. And as for using a Chevy, isn't that a bit off for a Turbo Buick site?

 

[b4black]

The Q-jet on a 301 is basically the same as the 231.

You need to determine is you will run off the ECM or not. That will effect your carb choice.

If you can find a complete Buick carb/turbo set up, great. Otherwise the blow-thru would be much easier to put together.

 

[Xamot]

So the carb from the 301T is the same thing huh, didn't know that. Thanks Rich.
What this basically comes down to is money / time / effort. Effort I dish out like nobody's business, time I have more of than patience. Money, meh, not so much. For now, I'm looking at getting the parts I NEED, then seeing what I want and putting together a list. So far, the only things that have made the list are the floor (taken care of) the rear filler panel for the trunk, and a Steering wheel. Lier Sigler seats are on there as well, but on the other side, LOL. I'm waiting on intercooled88 to get back to me. I may be able to work something out and piece together everything I need from him. This car is definatly getting boost though.

 

[Xamot]

Okay, this being the fisrt turbo car build, I've spent the better part of six hours reading & re-reading various posts and sections here. And I have discovered that I have been operating under a few assumptions that I need to confirm or disprove.
I had originally believed that there really only 2 options. Uncomputerized Draw thru carb turbos & and the computerized FI type.
I had read somewhere that intercolling carb'ed turbo car wouldn't benefit from intercooling.
The 3.8 & 4.1 are not the same and that the 3.8 is the better choice.

Guys-n-Gals, I'm going to be here asking alot of questions. I have altered a few engines & cars, but this is going to be my first Turbo car build and I don't want it to blow up after I'm done.

Also, is there a way to edit the title of this thread. I mean I bought the car already so I'd like to call it something closer to the situation.
Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

 

[b4black]

From 1978 to 1980 the Carb/Turbo was uncomputerzied, but they did have Electronic Spark Control (knock timing retard). 1981 all GM engines (in the U.S.) became compturized.

Intercooling a draw-thru turbo isn't practical. (The turbo is bolted to the intake manifold) You can easily add water/alcohol injection however.

The 3.8 and 4.1 are the same externally. No reason to avoid the 4.1 and actually it makes total sense to me on a factory draw-thru. On a 9-sec SFI car, the stronger 3.8 "109" is the best choice amoung prodcution blocks. With a carb/turbo, you'll never be pushing the 4.1 block to the limit. There are plenty of FAST 4.1 V6's out there. I'm going with a Turbo 4.1 in my '82 GN.

Keep asking.

 

[Xamot]

Thanks Rich, for clearing that up for me. This is going to be my first turbo build. I've owned a turbo car, but I was alot younger and didn't know, or need to know how to work on it. Speaking of the 82 GNs. I have been doing alot of thinking on whichway I want to go with this project, and have decided that I want to build a fisrt & last as my tribute to the Grand National. My Dream car is the 82 GN Turbo Sport coupe, and pictures of the GNX is what started my love of the Gbody cars to start with. So I'm planning on building the interior to match the 82 and the body styling of the GNX. I haven't decided if I'll do the Black or a variation of the 82 GNs paint yet. One of the deciding factors is if I can find the shadow box decals for the quarters and deck lid. So far I haven't been able to locate any repro ones, but I have a guy who makes custom auto decals. Not sure if he can make them, but I may have to try.

 

[mikemcvaney]

Im putting a 4.1 in my car it is at the machine shop now went out of my way to get it have 2 3.8 turbos laying around wanted the big pistons of the 4.1

 

[Xamot]

Okay, so Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. 3.8 109 block is the stronger block, top of the food chain type of thing. Then comes the 4.1 due to larger pistons without compromising the block integrity by overboring, then comes the early 3.8s. Sound right?
Rich, you know your going to have to explaine / define "fast 4.1s".
I think I need to come up with a parts list based on what my performance goals are at this point. A nice comfy DD that can keep up with the stock SFI GNs. That's not an unrealistic goal is it?
Throw some ideas at me fellas, I have a sound idea on what it's going to cost me for the body / interior conversion is going to cost me, and I have begun looking for a 200-r4 trans core for a rebuild. But the engine is going to be where I need the most advice.

Thanks all for your support
Mike

 

[b4black]

A "fast 4.1" is 11's maybe even 10's in the quarter mile. Much faster than anyone has taken a carb/turbo that I am aware of. The 4.1 is plenty strong for what we are doing.

In general, the later the year of the block, the stronger it is (minor tweaks were made with each new casting). The 4.1 bowed out in 1984. A 1984 4.1 is roughly the same as a 1984 3.8.

The benefit from the extra displacement far outweighs the benefit from the slightly stonger 109 block (for the power a carb/turbo will be making). When we start running in the 10's, then it's time to rethink this.

 

[charlief1]

A "fast 4.1" is 11's maybe even 10's in the quarter mile. Much faster than anyone has taken a carb/turbo that I am aware of. The 4.1 is plenty strong for what we are doing.

In general, the later the year of the block, the stronger it is (minor tweaks were made with each new casting). The 4.1 bowed out in 1984. A 1984 4.1 is roughly the same as a 1984 3.8.

The benefit from the extra displacement far outweighs the benefit from the slightly stonger 109 block (for the power a carb/turbo will be making). When we start running in the 10's, then it's time to rethink this.

I've got to agree with Rich in this case. A 4.1 would help get the car moving better and I do personally know of 1 member that's used one in a C/T set up. He got into the 11's without any problems. PM junkbrick (Reed) and he can give you some info on what he did and when. Just be prepared to be on the phone for a while if you call him.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

i have several complete setups forsale.

have a few complete Knock control centers forsale as well.

id take the 4.1 over a 3.8 anyday. but needs work to hold higher power numbers.

 

[Xamot]

WOW, okay 11 sec is plenty fast for me. Keep in mind guys, I didn't even plan on buying this car. I was talking to the wife at a flower shop about getting one when we got our tax refund, and a guy over heard me talking to her. So any and all upgrades are going to happen slowly. As a side note, has the SFI system been sawped on to one of these vlocks. It maybe the way I go eventually, but I'm not sure yet.

Hey Doc, what would be in a complete set-up, and how much would it run me? Just thinkin, HMMMMMM.........