Main Cap ??

[Turbo317]

i am rebiulding my motor soon, all im shooting for is low 12's maybe 11's ... i was looking into billet main caps, im kinda on a tight budget, i am just trying to get some opionings on them, if they are worth it or even necessary for what im shooting for.
Thanks in advanced
Bryan
Ps. i have already ordered main studs

 

[Intercooler]

At that level no. Just use the studs.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

completly stock bottom ends will take that..

heck mines stock bottom end

 

[steve hughes]

Are you rebuilding the motor because it has a problem or just because it has 90k on it? I also agree , leave the stock caps on it.

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

150.00 for the 2 (billet)center caps , no way I would rebuild without them . It would be great insurance , maybe not nessary but why chance it for 150.00 if you have the motor out anyway.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

add the line bore cost to that

and if unnessasary you dont bolt 2 different metals together that have different expansion rates it can be more harmfull than good over time.

for short term no problem but not for a motor that could see alot of miles which is not uncommon for an11 sec turbo regal.

i dont see a need for the steel caps ever in a 3.8..if your going for gusto the only way i see to hold it together is with a girdle caps alone wont stop the block from breaking.

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

My mach shop only charges 20.00 more to line bore with the billet caps , than with the stock caps . A good rebuild would include a line bore anyway , although you could just chk the main bores and see if they are close enough to get by(cut corners).
Never had any problems with the billet caps , lots of cars and lots of miles , stage 2 eng's come with steel caps , so I am not sure if there is a problem with 2 diff metals(BLOCK AND CAPS) but in my experience there has been none .
On the other hand I have seen a few cars DOTC with the stock caps but never with the billet caps , SPEND THE MONEY ,DO IT RIGHT ,DO IT ONCE

 

[Intercooler]

If it isn't broke though why fix it. The line bore/hone is expensive and unless it is out there is absolutely no need, especially at the level he is talking about. Just a waste!

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

not looking to argue that point but you dont line bore a block that dont need it ....line hone yes but not bore.

that compares with going to maximum bore first time when it dont need it.

say you line bore it then spin a main ..what then? if it wont line bored the first time then it could be to fix the spun main...

always save more meat for later..

he did say low 12 high 11 if i remember corectly


the production bottom end doesent need any help till breaking in the 10's im proof of that ..im very hard on my car and have plenty enough power to run down in tens and with stock block and rotating assembly

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

Sorry for the choice of words , Bore vrs Hone . Mach shop would take out the min. material possiable .
The Fact of the matter is he is rebuilding and I doubt if the main bores will be perfect after 90k, He did not say why he is rebuilding but I hope it is because of bottom end problem and not for the heck of it .
Low 12's or high 11's I'm sure he wont want to go any faster , I think we all said that at one time . And he will never detanate either.
Any way no hard feelings, I Just think the added strength of the main caps are a good deal for anyone racing there car and is foolish not to add them if the engine needs a rebuild ,175.00 is not alot of money on an eng rebuild

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by qwknuf6 jr
Sorry for the choice of words , Bore vrs Hone . Mach shop would take out the min. material possiable .
The Fact of the matter is he is rebuilding and I doubt if the main bores will be perfect after 90k, He did not say why he is rebuilding but I hope it is because of bottom end problem and not for the heck of it .
Low 12's or high 11's I'm sure he wont want to go any faster , I think we all said that at one time . And he will never detanate either.
Any way no hard feelings, I Just think the added strength of the main caps are a good deal for anyone racing there car and is foolish not to add them if the engine needs a rebuild ,175.00 is not alot of money on an eng rebuild

It isn't just $175.00. Maybe for just the caps but most places charge $200-$400 to do a line-bore/hone and cap fitment. The total will be more like $400 when said and done to install them. I put them on both motors I have in the shop now but one was because of a cap that was bad and the other was because it will be venturing into the 10's. You have to bore it first then hone it. The guy may not have the cage or want to put one in so he wants to run on the edge of 12.0's.

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

Originally posted by Intercooler
It isn't just $175.00. Maybe for just the caps but most places charge $200-$400 to do a line-bore/hone and cap fitment. The total will be more like $400 when said and done to install them. I put them on both motors I have in the shop now but one was because of a cap that was bad and the other was because it will be venturing into the 10's. You have to bore it first then hone it. The guy may not have the cage or want to put one in so he wants to run on the edge of 12.0's.

Well like I said , My mach shop charges 20.00 extra dollars to do the line bore and hone with the billet caps over line hone with stock caps , have done about 10 motors for me , Maybe the folks in MD stick it to you a little more than good old OKlahoma . If the guy is racing the car he should get the caps .
If you need me to do it for that price send it on down .150.00 fo the caps and 400.00 for the line bore/hone ?650.00 ? thats crazy

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Turbo317
i am rebiulding my motor soon, all im shooting for is low 12's maybe 11's ... i was looking into billet main caps, im kinda on a tight budget, i am just trying to get some opionings on them, if they are worth it or even necessary for what im shooting for.
Thanks in advanced
Bryan
Ps. i have already ordered main studs

If all you're looking to do is run 12's or occasional 11's, then no, you don't need to waste your time or money with billet caps. If the car is kept in a descent stage of tune, you can easilly run mid 11's on a bone stock motor. No need for billet caps or main studs, etc.
Money wasted at the level you're at.

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

Re: Re: Main Cap ??

Originally posted by TurboDave



If all you're looking to do is run 12's or occasional 11's, then no, you don't need to waste your time or money with billet caps. If the car is kept in a descent stage of tune, you can easilly run mid 11's on a bone stock motor. No need for billet caps or main studs, etc.
Money wasted at the level you're at.

I see no wasted time , really may SAVE alot of time in the long run . Remember he is pulling the engine to rebuild.

Alot of the things we use on our buicks is a waste of money , i.e. 110 octain race gas , we may not need that much octain but it gives us a safety margin that is much cheaper , not to mention less trouble than changing a head gasket , we switch to larger fuel inj's so we have MORE than enough fuel when the stock ones will get our cars into the 11's, again a safety margin .

It has been said by people much smarter than I will ever be that once the cars reach 450 hp (high to mid 11's ) detenation will bottom load the stock caps and they will crack sooner or later , and then you WILL drive over the crank !!!

How many people have said I want to run low 12"s and maybe a high 11? And then went faster ! Most I would say .
How much will it cost to add the Billet caps later ?
How much will it cost if you DOTC?

I have seen 3 cars DOTC without billet caps in the high 11's
Rollin a "moderator" is one , he destoyed not only the motor but the transmission , A car at the OK Ford /Buick Shootout also destroyed the eng and trans .I wonder how much that cost !!!I Know they wished they had the Billet caps .

So you dont really need alot of things its just a matter of insurance and reliablity .175.00 extra or even a little more is not alot to pay if the motor is apart and you are looking to RACE in the high 11's, Any GN "RACED" should have the billet caps installed WHEN rebuild time comes

 

[Intercooler]

No No! I bet it is safe to say the cranks that dropped out the bottom was more due to the crank. Just because he may be rebuilding doesn't mean he should cap it. If anything buy some nice pieces to tune in and take detonation out of the picture. Better to go that route than band-aid with caps. I use them but go a little faster than 11.9-12.0. If he has the money just burning a hole in his pocket, go for it! I still have yet to actually see a high 11 second car with cap damage that is known to be the cap. Maybe the girdle would be the better option for him

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

no no ! crank not problem , main cap crack . let crank flex , that cause of crank breakage !billet cap ,no crank break

 

[turbolc2]

Broken Cast Main Caps

If you don't detonate it,you don't break caps.Don't run to the edge of fuel.Its possible to break a casting if it has inclusions.A correct casting will not break unless the saddle is slapped by a detonation.

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

No one , that has raced their GN/T in the low 12 high 11 second 1/4 mi and has owner the car for very long ,has not detonated at some point .

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

i've detinated mine pretty bad even with enough power to push it 127 mph and nothing has broke so guess i'm just lucky..

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

EXACTLY!!!!!