Mating an LC2 to an Audi 5000 tranny, midengine, What would be needed ECM related

[alterTgo]

O.K. I posted this a while back in the lounge and didn't get any good info I need.

My question is, how does our 200r4 work in relation to the ECM. I am building a mid engine one-off car and want to use an LC2 but most likely will have to use an L98 350 because I don't know what kind of software and electrical problems I will encounter using a TR engine. The TR engine would be best because it would be exotic, weigh far less, and I could have more space.
I know someone is running a 5 speed fiero mated to one, does any one know his POC info? Or does anyone know if our ECM is a stand alone model that only controls the engine and I could mate it to any transmission? I was asking about a Porsche tranny last time but I found a place that uses Audi 5000's and they are alot cheaper and can hold up to 500ft/lbs so I'm going with the AUDI trans for sure.

Any insight on how to mate our engines with a 5 speed would be great, thanks.

 

[motorhead]

1) The SBC and the LC2 weigh about the same... the Buick has a very heavy block.
2) There is stand alone aftermarket DFI systems that will control the LC2 just fine.
3) You can use the stock ECM as a controller without too many issues.
4) The 200-4R isn't computer controlled, excluding the TCC engagement. The ECM only receives info from the trans on a very basic level. You may run into some issues with the VSS input to the ECM, but that is about it.

 

[azgn]

visit your local sand rail shop...they have all kinds of trans/engine adaptors.....at least one rail here has a 5 speed and LC2

 

[alterTgo]

Thanks, I found a place called Kennedy Engineering that already has the adapters. I though I read somewhere that our engine came in 70 lbs lighter than the Chevy 350 w/o aluminum heads. This should be interesting, now the hard part....finding a cheap extra GN engine with all accessories. I would just hate to have an exotic without the beloved whistle that I have grwon to love.

 

[GNVAIR]

The Buick V6 is on average of 150lbs less than a small block Chevy. I just did the turbo 6 swap into my father's Monte SS.
The front end wont come down from the removal of the small block. I will be swapping my stock GN springs in to compensate.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Mr. T
1) The SBC and the LC2 weigh about the same... the Buick has a very heavy block.

Ummm, NOT

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by TurboDave


Ummm, NOT

Hey!

Someone, on this board, made reference to a particular BOP 350 that the 3.8 was derived from, and said that this was the reason for the extra durability and weight.

Are we talking short block? Or the whole setup?

Subject to misinformation... but glad to hear it... makes my car's nose lighter.

 

[gnx7]

This is no way in exact weight.... but I remember a list of engine weights and the 3.8 Buick with cast iron intake/heads weighed around 375lbs. The typical 350 Chevy with cast iron heads/intake weighed 550-575lbs. Aluminum V8 heads save about 45-50lbs from the engine.

So the Buick engine is much lighter. The main reason I used it in my conversion..... plus the fact that with minor bolt ons this car blows my mind.

AlterTgo- I want to build a 914 with Buick GN power one day myself or an LT1 in it. If you plan to create a midengine marvel I would suggest either getting a 930 Turbo Transaxle '78 and newer as the torque our Buicks put out will annihilate most other setups. You can also put a new '97-02 Vette transaxle out back which will provide you with cheaper parts (not initial $$$ outlay), wider gear ratio selection, and it is nearly all aluminum!

Here is another source for your conversion ?'s:
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/main.htm

 

[Robert]

Hi AlterTgo, unless you're dead set on a manual tranny, which I don't like with a turbo, there is another option out there. It's not a true mid engine set up but fairly close. That is the TH325-4L out of '83 /"85 Rivieras, Caddy Eldorados, & Olds Toronados. This a 4 spd overdrive lock-up auto with many componets similar to our 200R4's . I'm in the process right now of building a 917 Porsche replica kit car with an '87 GN turbo motor & TH325-4L tranny.ala mid engine. Hopefully the complete package should scale in around 2300# , and will be a fun ride. Just a little food for thought. TAZ

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by alterTgo
..............................................
Any insight on how to mate our engines with a 5 speed would be great, thanks. [/B]

The Buick turbo motor does not respond well to a manual tranny in general. Depending on what you plan to do with the car and the type performance you expect. Unless you have the really high dollar trans to take power shifts, it drops lots of torque between shifts.

The sand rail Woody mentioned has LOTS of $$$ just in the drivetrain to get it where he wants. It was overdone to start with and he spent more money to back it down. Definately different tuning and parts combination with a manual. Talk with some of the few that have been there before you do it, will save lots of $$$$ and time and frustration!

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Mr. T


Hey!

Someone, on this board, made reference to a particular BOP 350 that the 3.8 was derived from, and said that this was the reason for the extra durability and weight.

Are we talking short block? Or the whole setup?

Subject to misinformation... but glad to hear it... makes my car's nose lighter.

Doesn't matter if we're talking short or long block. Comparisons are the same.
First of all AlterTgo was talking about an L98 350, you're talking about a BOB 350. NO they're not the same engines. And I'll stick with my original claim. the LC2 is lighter than the Chevy 350 or the BOP 350.
Bye

 

[alterTgo]

Wow, thanks for the reply. I have thought about the 325 and 425 trannies but it places the weight of the engine and trans to far rearward and I definately want a 5 speed. I am going with the Audi trans over a Porsche for money reasons, although I have read that the Audi can handle up to 500hp and 500 ft/lbs. They said Audi over engineered that trans, which I beleive and it was almost the same tranny they used in the 944 turbo, just minor differences.

What company has DFI units for our cars. I definately don't want to use a laptop to run the car so it has to be a little more solid than running a laptop somewhere in the car. Thanks, keep the info coming.

P.S. I have checked out www.renegadehybrids.com, and almost considered making a porsche widebody kit with a 350, but it would be a fake. I'm selling my 86 T and 93 Stealth TT to make this happen, but I am keeping the 84 WH1 as my daily driver, I can't give up all my speed and trubos for 3 years while I build this bad boy.

 

[fly89gta]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
The front end wont come down from the removal of the small block. I will be swapping my stock GN springs in to compensate.

I sure can relate to that, my GTA sits much higher in the front end...time to get new springs...

 

[TRiv]

AlterTgo, I am also building a one off mid-engine custom inspired by the F50 and to be turbo Buick powered. Originally to be powered by standard front engine, rear wheel drive Chevy, it did'nt fit well below hood line, and was'nt very exotic. While looking for misc. parts at a local junkyard, came across a 1985 Riviera T-type with everything intact and in running condition. I bought the entire front half of the car (Riv was too rusty to restore) and cleaned everything and am now figuring how to transplant the entire drivetrain and front suspension into my project (it looks like a complete car). As you know, many in the past have put Toronado drivetrains with th425 into countless creations, and while maybe fast, also tail heavy. The th325 and 4l while lighter probably no better for weight distribution. I plan to use th th325-4l that came with my engine ( has a 3.15 diff.), and since there is not a lot, if any information on this I am on my own and am looking to swap ideas about this. Worked in automotive and now at NASA on shuttle experiments I have some engineering experience, now to put it to fun use. Someone must have tried this but no info; reverse mounting the engine/trans 180 in chassis, clock the differential 180 to trans. Of course not quite that simple, many details, need trans to diff. extension (about 13 in.) misc. brackets, possible cv joint axles changed, etc. This is just a summary of ideas, it does put the engine/trans ahead of rear axle line for better weight distribution, note; the diff will be spinning correct (gears) pinion below axle cl. This post is getting long any thoughts, I understand your considering other transaxles, just looking to keep Buick drivtrain intact.