You can type here any text you want

Maybe Bruce can help me here

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
To sum it up in a nutshell, yes, shorter runners and a bigger plenum are tuned to high rpm, and vice versa.
Visualize the intake charge rushing into the intake port and into the cylinder. The valve slams shut, and the rush of air continues to move toward the valve. This charge cant go anywhere, so it compresses, then bounces back toward the plenum. The charge stretches out, hits the area of higher pressure, which is the plenum, and then bounces back again toward the valve. if the valve opens again right when the charge is rushing back towards the valve, this extra inertia pulls more air into the cylinder than it would have at another time. Its called passive supercharging. Practically every fuel injected modern motor has long runners to take advantage of this. Many late model cars use dual runners for each cylinder. One long one for resonant tuning condusive to low end torque, and another short one for high rpm resonant tuning. A computer controlled valve will switch from the longer runner, to the shorter one, at a given rpm, to maintain the strongest curve. Its possible to do away with this, and design a single runner that is a balance between the 2. This science is used to engineer motors of all kinds. Even Mazda tunes runner lengths for use in their turbocharged rotary motors. It doesnt matter what its used on. Its science. practically every modern engine uses an intake manifold that was designed with this phenomenon in mind. Theyve used supercomputers and advanced fluid software to come up with the most efficient intake manifolds possible. Why do you think the early Throttle Body injection systems were done away with? Because they all utilized short, carburation style intake manifolds, with shorter runners. Runners that were originally designed with space in mind, and keeping costs down by using old casts for their intakes. Dodge made these cross ram intake manifolds back in the day that used VERY long runners. These intakes were the hot ticket, because they were known to produce the strongest curve available. People try to say that its useless on forced induction motors, but thats only because the turbo appears to be overcoming the mismatch to a degree, and the motor is already making so much power that they really dont care about spending countless hours modifying intakes, when they could just add that much power by upping the boost a couple more pounds.
Do you need this technology to make big power on a Turbo buick? Hell no. But this phenomenon exists in all internal combustion engines, and if you can take advantage of it, why not? More power, a stronger curve, better fuel economy.
 
Bruce- Im not doubting your expertise with turbo regals. You've probably forgetten more than I know about these cars. I'm just speaking from a fundamental standpoint, and how the data could be used in the turbo regal world. It would be a fun experiment.
The 1/2 psi, on my 390 flywheel hp cobra equates to 13.26hp. My point was that resonant tuning can be used to pull out alot more power than that.
Sorry for being a smartass about the laws of physics remark. The TR's make so much power as they are, that I can see it being totally uninteresting to most people. I'm one of those freaks that always sweats the details and asks "what if?" with everything. I would like to play with this stuff one of these days and see what happens.
A drag regal wouldnt be a candidate for sure. That would be pointless. But it would be interesting to see the results on a street car, where the boost levels need to be kept down cause of pump gas, and better fuel economy is desired.
 
Horsepower

Bruce referred to the divisor 5252.A simple equation for horsepower given certain things are true/known is "HP=TQxRPM/5252.As the numerator gets smaller due less "TQ"(Torque) HP gets smaller since 5252 is a constant.If tq is small the only way to make the numerator large is to have large RPM since the numerator is a product.There have been such animals such as the formula 1 Renault 1.2l DEFI making about 800hp at 14,000 RPM.Definately not cost effective & definately not a street engine.A short stroke motor.
 
Originally posted by VadersV6

The 1/2 psi, on my 390 flywheel hp cobra equates to 13.26hp. My point was that resonant tuning can be used to pull out alot more power than that.

Sorry for being a smartass about the laws of physics remark. The TR's make so much power as they are, that I can see it being totally uninteresting to most people. I'm one of those freaks that always sweats the details and asks "what if?" with everything. I would like to play with this stuff one of these days and see what happens.

A drag regal wouldnt be a candidate for sure. That would be pointless. But it would be interesting to see the results on a street car, where the boost levels need to be kept down cause of pump gas, and better fuel economy is desired.

Thing of it is, 1/2 PSI of boost means moving the VE from say 96% to probably 105% in some appls., and that depending on appl. could be alot more the 13 HP.

OK.
I've gotta be one of the *what if* crowd, I've played that game for a while.

If you look really close at this pic, you'll see where beside the EGR mounting flange where I welded up the area between the runners.
http://home.woh.rr.com/brucesgn/plenum/dcp4258.html
I then cut out the plenum floor so that it was no longer an air gap maifold. I then cut out the bottom of the runner floors so as to shorten the runners. With the plenum spacer, the new volume was about 1.7x the original, and the runners were about .75" shorter.
My car is a streeter, and the changes were quite noticeable.

Removing the floor also means, not liquid fuel drizzles down the runner floors. It falls onto the plenum floor, and then has to be vaporized to get into the runners. This in addition to the larger plenum sent a long ways for improving drivibility. Not to mention I had to add 8% more fuel to get back to the original AFR.


Just as a FWIW, one thing that's been totally ignored that matter ALOT is the actual injector timing. The injectors fire at the DRP, Distributor Refernce Pulse and while that's great with a cold engine, when warm, and at higher RPM, it's wayyyyyy less then optimum.
 
Back
Top