Just wanted to see if the new 15w-50 racing synthettic oil is ok to run in our motors.It said it was highly recommend for turbos.I have been using valvoline racing 20w-50 and has worked fine but I really like using the mobil 1 products....Thanks for any comments.
Mobil 1 synthetic oil 15w-50 race oil
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strikeeagle
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I use it and it works fine.
Be aware the stuff is heavy, so if you do any cold weather driving you might want something lighter. My cars are up for the winter, and I do not start them periodically (which I consider torture) - I just leave them until Spring.
Like one guy said, no "salad oil" for my motors.
You know our motors take some punishment, especially if they are detonated. Would you rather have a sturdy oil or your bearings absorb that abuse?
strike
Be aware the stuff is heavy, so if you do any cold weather driving you might want something lighter. My cars are up for the winter, and I do not start them periodically (which I consider torture) - I just leave them until Spring.
Like one guy said, no "salad oil" for my motors.
You know our motors take some punishment, especially if they are detonated. Would you rather have a sturdy oil or your bearings absorb that abuse?
strike
I've also been using Valvoline Racing, for right at 30 years now. I still haven't seen any reason to change. I dunno seems just to make sense to stick to something that's been working, IMO.
I'm more of a skeptic then ever about M1. For 30 years they've been selling their oil suggesting 3,000 mile changes, and just now have come out with the Long Life. What took 30 years to *perfect*?. Seems to me, just to be more marketing hype.
My 98,000 mile GN had low oil pressure at hot idle on hot summer days, like 8 psi, so I switched to 15w-50 mobil one.
Now I get an additional 5-7 psi at hot idle, which makes me feel better. I've also been racing it for the past 5 years (high 12 sec.) with the M1 15w-50 with no issues. I agree on not driving it in the winter though, with thick oil. I only drive it in the summer, so for me it's not an issue.
Pete
Now I get an additional 5-7 psi at hot idle, which makes me feel better. I've also been racing it for the past 5 years (high 12 sec.) with the M1 15w-50 with no issues. I agree on not driving it in the winter though, with thick oil. I only drive it in the summer, so for me it's not an issue.
Pete
Well it looks like its about a 50/50.You are correct about the thickness of the oil on cold days,I was running the 5w-30 M1 in my last motor before getting it rebuilt,It seem to be fine but when it was hot it seem to be alittle low on the oil pressure for me to like some 20 psi @idle.It just cost $5.19 a quart compared to the $2.20 Qt for the Valvoline 20w-50.I sure wish I could find out if one oil is better then the other for sure.I guess I will give the M1 15w-50 a try here soon and see just how fast it breaks down from the Valvoline.I do know on idle @180-195 temp, my oil pressure was 40 psi on the Valvoline 20w-50 and way over 100 psi under boost so atleast I have a base line to start with.
****Also has anyone used the M1 synthetic gear lubricant in there rear ends containing limited slip additive 75w-90?Or should I just stay with the 85w-140 gear lube that I bought from ATR?I was thinking the weight of the gear lube might be to lite on the M1....Thanks
****Also has anyone used the M1 synthetic gear lubricant in there rear ends containing limited slip additive 75w-90?Or should I just stay with the 85w-140 gear lube that I bought from ATR?I was thinking the weight of the gear lube might be to lite on the M1....Thanks
Don't use synthetic in the diff. Plenty of people on this board have had issues with bearings and the like going bad usually if the car sits for a while. Synthetic doesn't cling to the parts like dino does. Stay with what the factory is using, nothing wrong with it.
If you use Valvoline 20-50 Racing you cannot go wrong. I have used it for years in my SBC and now my Buicks. It still has all of the friction modifiers in it that the EPA doesn't like..LOL
It has a high volume oil pump from ATR so Iam sure its not to bad for the motor.Where does it say that to much oil pressure is a bad thing, like not enough oil pressure is?I have never heard something like that ever.Maybe I'm wrong but to me I would think good oil pressure is way betteer then not having enough.I think Nicks @ArizonaGNs has just as much oil pressure as I do on Idle from watching it on the video of it running.Correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by onefastgn
It has a high volume oil pump from ATR so Iam sure its not to bad for the motor.Where does it say that to much oil pressure is a bad thing, like not enough oil pressure is?I have never heard something like that ever.Maybe I'm wrong but to me I would think good oil pressure is way betteer then not having enough.I think Nicks @ArizonaGNs has just as much oil pressure as I do on Idle from watching it on the video of it running.Correct me if I'm wrong.
Too much oil pressure, wastes HP, in several ways. One is thur the effort it takes to spin the pump, and secondarily is windage. The first is obvious, however windage isn't. If you were to install a clear plexiglass window in your oil pan, you'd see a huge *cyclone* of brown goo. The oil in the pan draining back thur the lifter valley, and heads, drops down on the crank, and gets whipped into a foam. While the later TR's had a small baffle it's hardly effective in controlling windage. Having the crank spin at thousands of RPM having this goo around it, also splashes oil up on the cylinder bores, and makes the rings work harder. Less the perfect ring sealing, means you wind up with some oil getting into the combustion chamber, oil in the chamber, puts the engine into detonation. The PCV system can also be a concern, since excessive oil up in the valve spring area, can generate a higher level of *oil fumes* for the system to deal with. An obviously, a set of less then perfect valve seals on the intake side, will allow for some oil passage into the engine from there.
A good scraper, and pan baffling will add HP to an engine, how much depends on the fit of the engine pieces, and overall tune.
With the single stage system the TRs have excessive pressure equates to excessive volume.
I'll ignore timing chain wear......
High pressure is safer then low, but there's no free ride.
Guess, I rambled on again........
I do understand what you are saying but we (Myself)Am only running it a 1/4 mile at a time I could see if I were to do laps on a track Then I would agree 100% but I have a hard time thinking that it is all that bad cuz Aggressive Preformance installed it and never said a thing to me about it being to much oil pressure for the buick 3.8 motors,And ATR sells them,Maybe its because I use such a high weight oil.So what is the magic number for oil pressure then,I would rather change my oil to a lessor weight then to possibly cause damage to my motor.Don't get me wrong I'm reading and understanding every thing you are saying and just want to do the right thing.Thanks
Bruce,
i do not understand your logic (no flame) but I can turn my oil pump when the oil is cold with a little 9v cordless drill. I think turning the oil pump takes little if any discernable horse power. Far less then 1hp in my estimation.
Windage is a real concern but I would contend that increasing oil pressure from increasing oil thickness does not increase windage. If anything it decreases actual flow, hence the increase in pressure. Not contending that was your point, just adding some additional thoughts.
I think 40/100 is pretty darn good. If I wasn't worried about wiping out the front cam bearing I would shoot for that. These motors make so much torque so early (more then most big blocks), and on only 6 rod bearings. I figure the more oil wedge you can toss between the bearings and crank the earlier...the better.
Again, no flame toward anyone just my random thoughts............
i do not understand your logic (no flame) but I can turn my oil pump when the oil is cold with a little 9v cordless drill. I think turning the oil pump takes little if any discernable horse power. Far less then 1hp in my estimation.
Windage is a real concern but I would contend that increasing oil pressure from increasing oil thickness does not increase windage. If anything it decreases actual flow, hence the increase in pressure. Not contending that was your point, just adding some additional thoughts.
I think 40/100 is pretty darn good. If I wasn't worried about wiping out the front cam bearing I would shoot for that. These motors make so much torque so early (more then most big blocks), and on only 6 rod bearings. I figure the more oil wedge you can toss between the bearings and crank the earlier...the better.
Again, no flame toward anyone just my random thoughts............
Vast difference between how fast an electric drill spins it, and at 3,000 RPM.
My post was in response to operating pressure.
Buick's will live just fine with 10 PSI / 1,000 RPM, above idle. ~15 for idle seems about right. You also put more heat into the oil, compressing it for the higher pressures.
Going fast, long engine life, MPG, is about finding 1/2 HP atta time. It's attention to all the finer details that after a while add up.
"Vast difference between how fast an electric drill spins it, and at 3,000 RPM."
Yes and no I think. My comment was around cold oil pump priming. I can pump well inexcess of 60 psi off of a hand drill. I think RPM has less to do with load as opposed to presssure. My 'guess' is that pump load at 60psi on cold oil at 2k rpm is much like 60psi on hot oil at 4500 rpm. Agian, this is a guess.
These motors live on what seems to be totally inadequate pressure, I'd have to agree there. Anything that makes as much power as these do at such low RPM's, out of only 6 rod bearings never ceases to amaze me.
Yes and no I think. My comment was around cold oil pump priming. I can pump well inexcess of 60 psi off of a hand drill. I think RPM has less to do with load as opposed to presssure. My 'guess' is that pump load at 60psi on cold oil at 2k rpm is much like 60psi on hot oil at 4500 rpm. Agian, this is a guess.
These motors live on what seems to be totally inadequate pressure, I'd have to agree there. Anything that makes as much power as these do at such low RPM's, out of only 6 rod bearings never ceases to amaze me.
RobsIron
Silent but Violent
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I use the 15-50 Mobile 1 too. Its good to see others using that weight also..I thought I was the only one. eek:
In all my years of racing, reading, and hanging out with some Pros I have learned that 10 lbs. per 1000 rpm is the baseline for most engines.
On my SBCs I use High Volume oil pumps with medium pressure springs. High Volume pumps have slightly taller gears and then use the desired rated pressure spring.
Is this true for 3.8s?
In all my years of racing, reading, and hanging out with some Pros I have learned that 10 lbs. per 1000 rpm is the baseline for most engines.
On my SBCs I use High Volume oil pumps with medium pressure springs. High Volume pumps have slightly taller gears and then use the desired rated pressure spring.
Is this true for 3.8s?
Blown&Injected
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Stick with what works
This type of comment begs the question:
What type of oil has not worked?
As far as psi, 15w-50 gets me no more pressure after several minutes of driving than 5w-30.
BTW - In the very cold - 20w-50 does NOT want to flow.
This type of comment begs the question:
What type of oil has not worked?
As far as psi, 15w-50 gets me no more pressure after several minutes of driving than 5w-30.
BTW - In the very cold - 20w-50 does NOT want to flow.
just my input, i use nothing other than mobil 1 in all of my vehicles: 86 11 sec. GN, 71 supercharged pantera, 92 supercharged dakota, 2000 f350 diesel, 98 supercharged 4runner...i ran 100K miles on my gn with mobil 1 15/50...and i used alot of nitrous along the way while in the street racing scene in los angeles, i tore the motor apart at 175K miles (had no problems, just thought it was a good idea to freshen it up), the motor looked brand new, no copper showing on the bearings, still looked like a slight cross hatch in the bores, cam had no flat or worn areas, seemed to be very little wear, the only problem that i see when using mobil 1 is the motors will tend to leak oil if you switch over from a regular oil, and they will tend to rattle a little more upon startup, but so far no problems with the next 40K miles on the gn that i've put on since build up, which includes the 62E and the 210/205 cam that some have had problems with
Racing Oil
Even if I worked at Valvoline, or Mobil- or anywhere I could get my oil for free- I don't think I would run racing oil. The formulation of the oil is very specific for the expected operating conditions. For a race engine, these are some expectations:
Oil change interval- one week, or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Cold starts- one per oil change
Idle in traffic- max five minutes per oil change
Desired engine life- one week or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first
Time spent sitting in a cold carport/driveway/parking lot- zero
There are more, relative to corrosion inhibitors, fuel contamination, bearing materials, internal engine clearances, and many I can't think of. But I know that for my engine, I'm NOT going to treat it like a race car. So I need the additives that are included for street use.
NOTE: Mobil claims that their Mobil 1 race oil is good for high performance street use, too, so I'm not sure what the actual additive packages are in Mobil
Even if I worked at Valvoline, or Mobil- or anywhere I could get my oil for free- I don't think I would run racing oil. The formulation of the oil is very specific for the expected operating conditions. For a race engine, these are some expectations:
Oil change interval- one week, or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Cold starts- one per oil change
Idle in traffic- max five minutes per oil change
Desired engine life- one week or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first
Time spent sitting in a cold carport/driveway/parking lot- zero
There are more, relative to corrosion inhibitors, fuel contamination, bearing materials, internal engine clearances, and many I can't think of. But I know that for my engine, I'm NOT going to treat it like a race car. So I need the additives that are included for street use.
NOTE: Mobil claims that their Mobil 1 race oil is good for high performance street use, too, so I'm not sure what the actual additive packages are in Mobil
