More ETC problems

[blacknight80]

The car was running ok until the other day and it wouldn't start. So I unhooked the EST plug on the dizzie and volla ...fired right up. I have it timed at 15 degrees and without the computer plugged to the dizzie it starts and idles nice and smooth. Hook that dang four wire plug up and dead. What would be doing this and is there a way to test it. I couldn't find anything to trouble shoot it in my manual, everything is to check if it is properly working with in hooked up and the car running.

The electronics on these cars isn't for the faint of heart. O and still no otc scan tool......I can't spend anymore on the ol girl for a while.

Thanks

 

[blacknight80]

If I get rid of the ccc and replace it with a non ccc can I get rid of the ECM and replace it with a j and s unit. I can't seem to get the stock stuff to work for me and I'm ready to give up.
This cars has beaten me up pretty good over the summer. I was looking forwarded to a cool cruiser with a little zip and so far it's only been a gutless wonder. I think my wives Na 3.8 regal has better jam. It over fuels and obviously with the comp all mucked up I'm not getting any timing advance.

I'm pretty sure the ECM is fried again and I don't know what is doing it so instead of dumping another 100 bucks over and over I figured I might want to look into the j and s box.

Other than the lock up converter what do I need the stock ecm to run if I retro the carb?

I read the carb thread and I am a little confused.... If I take an existing 4m what do I need to do to it other than swapping my e4m tb. Is there a pic by pic walk through?

Thanks guys.

 

[charlief1]

The J&S unit is a stand alone unit, the CCC system is for the carb so you've got to either use a Holley modified for boost, or get the rest of the 78-79 carb and parts as well as a vacuum advance distributor.

 

[blacknight80]

Right so the j and s will run my timing control and I will get a normal vac advance dizzie. Can my stock dizzie be retroed to be a regular vac advance unit? I've got a vac advance dizzie with a broken oil pump coupler deal that came with the car and was curved for the turbo motor. Can I use the body and shaft from my 7 pin and switch it over to the vac set up.

How does the jand s unit control timing?

I can't modify a 4m to be boost referenced? What is the best aftermarket boost referenced carb?

Will the j amd s box operate the torque converter?

 

[charlief1]

With the J&S unit you can control timing throughout the RPM range, including staging. You will need an NA distributor to do this. The original distributor can't be adapted easily. As far as a carb goes, Holly is the only 1 you can use for boost reference, unless you get everything off a 78-79 turbo carb set up.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

its easy, if you can over look emission controls. this even gives you the chance to consider alternative fuels.

 

[blacknight80]

Well this renews my hope haha. I passed on a hole wack of carb turbo parts on kijiji last month cause I gave up and put a for sale sign on it. I'm kicking myself the guy only wanted 500 bucks for 2 or 3 plenums, carbs, intakes, and turbos. Doh!!!!

In your guys opinion what is a better option for power and drivability, a quadrajet or holley. I think I may have a tough time finding a rochester up here in Alberta.

Can you explain to me how the j and s unit works. I read up on it but I don't quite understand how it controls timing.

I like the idea of getting rid of all the wiring that snakes around the engine compartment.

Thanks for renewing my interest in my project. I had a guy interested in buying it from me but he mentioned a twin turbo LSx and I don't know if I can let it go to be defaced. It deserves a resto and mild mods. Anyways.... This forum and the odd black air viewing seem to keep my interest peaked. On that note why no love for the carb and hot air cars on the movie? The almost make it sound like the 86 Sfi was the first turbo buick. Our cars are the pilgrims and hardly get mentioned.

I digress. Thanks again

 

[dr_frankenstein]

The J&S works by detecting knock just like the old sytem. However, YOU are in control of the sesitivity of the knock. Once it detects knock, it can retard the timing based on the cylinder it determines to be causing knock, up to 12* per event. It replicates what the old system does, but does it much much faster and with individual cylinder control rather then across the board drops in timing. It is way far advanced over most factory knock control systems in my opinion and provides the ability to maintain Solid lifters or geardrives if your going for the maximum effort.

As for the carbs, that depends on your level of experiance. I prefer a holley or demon. Charlie like the Quads. Both work extremly well, however i find the holley more user friendly but more tempermental as well. I do prefer the holley in the boost referencing dept, for the ease of tunability for power and drivabilty with out the need for a PEVR.

As for the Dizzy.... you have options here.... you can complicate it more or simplify. Charlie is right, about an earlier distributor if you want to keep it simple... and it does work well. Or you can keep the dizzy you have and literally gut it out and just use the pickup coil inside. a 4 pin module can either be added internally or externally and you can use strictly mechanical advance if you dont desire vaccum. I myself dont use vaccum advance.

As for passing over the parts..... honestly... your not missing much. you really only need the basic parts you have already.... the rest will be stripped away and tossed.

 

[charlief1]

Aj will never let me forget this, but in your case a holley is the best choice. The reason I say this is because all the parts needed to use a Q-jet are hard as hell to find, and since you're in Canada, that would make it even harder.

The J&S unit not only retards timing up to 12 degrees total, but what Aj didn't tell you is that it does this individually per cylinder. An easier way to say this is, if #6 develops knock, then #6 is the only one that's retarded, not all cylinders. It will control all cylinders as if each were a separate one cylinder engine. it also changes the timing per cylinder by the next firing event so that damage is prevented. You also control the total timing retard rather than a pre programed chip.

 

[blacknight80]

Thanks for the great info. I'm Not scared of a quad its the only carb I know how to play with (I was always to cheap to upgrade). I think I'm going to search for a stock vac advanced dizzie. I had the broken one but I ripped it apart to make an oil primer tool. whoops. That's gonna cost me. O well I'll pop into the pick n pull and see what I can find this weekend. six cylinder parts are tough to find up here. It seems most of the g body's either have a 305 or 283 in em. They don't give those hollers away though wow. Might have to skim the kids college fund haha. How big of a carb does a guy need? 750?

How does the j and s pick the cylinders? Is it all timing and just retard the timing for a split second and turn it back up? Looks like the you get a more reliable knock sensor too.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

The J&S intercepts the signal from the dizzy. This is how it's knows what cylinder is causing issues. That's what's so amazing about this system... It can point out problem cylinders if there are errors in A/F mixture distribution. Yes it will resume normal timing per cylinder as long as knock events aren't present. The knock sensor is a common easy to use and replace unit.. And is like you said, more sensitive and reliable.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

As for carb, you can start with a 650 and work up. However I do run an 750 on mine

 

[blacknight80]

I read up on the demon website that their mighty demon replaces the holley hp blower carbs. Is there any truth to this? The mighty demon says its designed for blow thru and not draw thru, does anyone have any experience with one?

I would only be doing mild mods.
I'm thinking a mild cam, 200r4 swap, lower rear gear and a higher stall would be the extent of my mods( over an extended period). I don't feel like buying more than one carb. Is the 750 to much carb for a stock setup before the mods? I would imagine it would work just fine after. I am unsure how much air these cars need. Holley offers a 600 then jumps to 750. And I feel like 600cfm seems awfully small.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

So your planning on just buying the carb? How much holley experience do you have?

 

[charlief1]

You can get a conventional vacuum secondary carb and mod it for boost. It gives you more options for CFM rating.

 

[blacknight80]

I have zero experience with holleys but I'm not scared haha. I really like the rochester I will do a google search for the mod. I read the sticky but I didn't quite follow. The e4m carb is such a pos. Can I use any 4me carb ( I have one from a 301 and 305 that have recent rebuilds). What parts Do I rob, the rods and hanger from the e4m off the car? This is good news cause I don't really want to dump 700 bucks on a carb if I don't have to and then can stick with a rochester.

 

[charlief1]

Been waiting for Aj or warwagon to do a post on how to modify a holley for boost reference but so far no luck. Was planning on on making it a sticky if either of them get around to it.

 

[blacknight80]

Do I need a pevr regardless of the carb I put on it or does the holley have an internal control? How do you test a pevr? My car has an 80 manifold on it that still has a pevr sticking out of the top.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I haven't posted it yet because he hasn't decided on a carb. There is no sense in buying a carb. It is wasted money. Buy a used holley and rebuild it. You will not be using a pevr if you run a holley.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Also... There are many ways to boost reference a holley... We need to know how serious he plans to be. I use Co2 to control my boost reference. No boost presure