Im hoping some of you folks can give me your opinion of whats wrong with these pictures. Ive got a new Moser 12 bolt in my 81 G body. Im using Hotchkis upper and lower control arms, the uppers are non adjustable. I bought a set of Hotchkis 2" lowering springs and when I went to put it all together I saw that both springs looked like they were in at the wrong angle. I feel like the perches are welded in the wrong location on the tubes. I called Hotchkis and the specs are correct on the control arms. Moser says the perches look like theyre in the right place. Theres a seal installation tool in the cup to show the angle of the perch. What do you folks think ?
Moser 12 bolt problem
- Thread starter mikester
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You need to measure the pinion angle, it's the only way to verify whether or not the perches and shock mounts are correct or not.
The picture that sh0ws the bottom shock mount shows the stud almost horrizontal (as if the pinion nose were pointing too far down).
Yet the picture showing the tool mounted shows the spring perches leaning rearward (as if the pinion nose were too far up).
If you bring the pinion nose downward to correct the spring perch issue, imagine what the lower shock bolt is going to do!!
Did you show the vendor these pictures????
Something sure is out of whack.
The picture that sh0ws the bottom shock mount shows the stud almost horrizontal (as if the pinion nose were pointing too far down).
Yet the picture showing the tool mounted shows the spring perches leaning rearward (as if the pinion nose were too far up).
If you bring the pinion nose downward to correct the spring perch issue, imagine what the lower shock bolt is going to do!!
Did you show the vendor these pictures????
Something sure is out of whack.
I sent Moser at least 20 detailed pictures of the problem. I know the pinion angle is 4 degrees with the 2" drop springs. Im planning on using 1" drop springs instead. I put this post on MonteSS.com and one of the guys posted pictures of his Monte from the side before he put on his backing plates. The perches on his rear look like theyre angled to the front more than the back. The problem with the shock is another problem. If I rotate the rear by putting adjustable uppers in I'll never be able to put the shock on due to the angle of the bolt. Of course Moser is trying to say its my car which is total crap. The factory rear was fine when it was in there. They also said it could be the Hotchkis arms which is also BS. Im calling Moser back today and asking them for a picture of a new rear so I can compare the angles. I doubt theyre going to send one though. It will prove beyond a doubt that its theyre problem.
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btw your springs are upside down
Funny that you say that. I wasnt sure which way to install them so I called Hotchkis. The tech guy said since its a variable weight spring it didnt matter and when they install springs they put the narrow side to the rear. I put a post on another g body site and there werent many replys.
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1 deal, 1 time with those clowns. I got the same response. "You don't know what U R doing".
They got their $hit back, and I called Strange.
They got their $hit back, and I called Strange.
toomanymodz
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A good pic would be from the side with a wheel removed, so that we can see how the pinion and drive shaft match up.
toomanymodz
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Here is a pic of mine that I took a couple of years ago. You can see how my perch puts the spring pretty much straight, whereas yours is at an awful angle. See if you can look to see if the pinion angle looks correct. If so, then just the perches were welded wrong. If the whole housing is tilted, then its either the control arms are wrong, or the mounts were welded wrong.
These are a few of the pictures that I sent to Moser today. They told me they would send a pickup ticket to ship it back but if it fits in their jig Im on the hook for the bill to get it there and back. If any of you guys think this looks wrong please let me know. My biggest problem seems to be the angle of the perches. They told me to use adjustable uppers and Im going to get 1" drop springs instead of 2". Im also going to get the motor and transmission in the car and take measurements of the pinion angle again before I make a decision on sending it back. You folks can see the difference in the position of the perch compared to the tube flange on both sides. It looks like the perches should be more centered on the tube. Plus with a level on the tube in a plumb position, theres a gap between the perch and the level on one side. This cant be right. The other thing that Im concerned about is the shock bolt angle if I use adjustable arms. This has turned into a real mess.
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V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
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Did you ever get this problem resolved? It appears I'm having a similar issue with my new moser 12 bolt.
forcefed3.8's
Buckeye Bullet
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I am pretty sure the upper ears on the rear end housing are higher on the moser 12 bolt and require adjustable uppers.
V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
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Yeah, I can cure the problem as I have adjustable uppers. My shock mount is a tad off but I havent set pinion angle yet. My springs definitely do not look like the OP's.
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I sent the rear back last year right after I put the last post in. The customer rep from Moser told me that I'd have to pay the shipping cost to get it there but they let me use their account so I got a little discount. I shipped it from Long Island on a Thurs and they called me the following Wed saying they got it. I spoke to the floor production manager. He went on to tell me that it fit in their jig with no problem and everything was in spec. I went friggin nuts. I asked him how it could be within their specs if the spring perches were 4 degrees towards the back and they were supposed to be at 0 degrees with the rear on a flat surface and the yoke at 90 ? The perches were also close to 3/8" off from side to side when I measured them to the flange. I sent an envelope in the crate loaded with pictures that showed the different measurements from side to side with a steel machinests ruler. I was not happy !
Long story short, after 20 minutes of fighting with this guy on the phone he finally asked me "What can Moser do for you to make you a happy customer ?" I said send me a new rear. They sent me a new housing and they left the perches off so when the rear gets put in we can weld them where they need to be. The only thing that they didnt cover was the shipping back which pissed me off a little. I mean this whole thing was their fault. They claim the rear fit in the jig but rulers done lie. They made it right but I dont think I would buy another rear from them.
What really sucks for me is the rears still sitting on my garage floor. Since last year the 4 herniated discs in my neck have gotten much worse so Im very limted on what I can do. At this point it looks like Ive got one foot already in the surgeons door. I dont even know if I'll make it to the holidays without having major surgery on my neck. If they cut me open and put rods in Im pretty much done as far as getting everything back together. But it could be worse !!!!!! At least I got the rear !! Good luck with your problem.
BTW, the guy that I was dealing with at Moser was called FOZ.
Long story short, after 20 minutes of fighting with this guy on the phone he finally asked me "What can Moser do for you to make you a happy customer ?" I said send me a new rear. They sent me a new housing and they left the perches off so when the rear gets put in we can weld them where they need to be. The only thing that they didnt cover was the shipping back which pissed me off a little. I mean this whole thing was their fault. They claim the rear fit in the jig but rulers done lie. They made it right but I dont think I would buy another rear from them.
What really sucks for me is the rears still sitting on my garage floor. Since last year the 4 herniated discs in my neck have gotten much worse so Im very limted on what I can do. At this point it looks like Ive got one foot already in the surgeons door. I dont even know if I'll make it to the holidays without having major surgery on my neck. If they cut me open and put rods in Im pretty much done as far as getting everything back together. But it could be worse !!!!!! At least I got the rear !! Good luck with your problem.
BTW, the guy that I was dealing with at Moser was called FOZ.
I appreciate the offer but theres so much more to be done than the rear. The motors on a stand, transmission is built ready to go in, interior has been done but the carpet is in a box on the garage floor, dash has to be put back together. This was supposed to be the last project. It may never be finished. Now Im looking back thinking I never should have taken it apart. Everything else in my life always came first. Kids, house renovations, taking care of two elderly parents until they both passed. My father was the last to go in the fall of 07. I thought at that point life could start again. Five months later I found out that I had a touch of cancer. July of 08 I had surgery for that. Sept 08 I started having pain in both hands and severe headaches. Went for an MRI and found out that I had 4 blown cervical discs. Its been going down hill since. I stopped working in Dec 08 so its not like Im doing crap to make it worse. Its just happening naturally.
Im pretty much done at this point. Maybe my 23 year old son will show some interest in the car one day. Sad to see all that money wasted.
Im pretty much done at this point. Maybe my 23 year old son will show some interest in the car one day. Sad to see all that money wasted.
V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
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Sorry to hear all that man. I wish you well in your medical endeavors. The turbobuick community would be more than willing to help you out I am sure! Don't hesitate to ask! As far as my rear, I did test fit and all appears ok so far, but I am still awaiting final fitment testing when I have the car sitting level and I can check pinion angle. Then we will see where the shocks sit.
V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
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Well, I did more of a test fit today, and I have to say I am in the same boat here. I truly thought that Moser would have corrected their jig by now but obviously not. It is VERY dissappointing. I will be calling them on Monday. I really don't see a solution other than me sending them back. And I already dismantled the eyesore pallets in my drive way. ;( We'll see what happens. Once I get this cleared, I'll be calling Strange. Shoulda went with em in the first place being that they are so close to me.
I'm sorry to hear that you're having the same problems. I cant believe Moser hasn't fixed the issues that are causing this. Whats the problem with your rear ? Spring perches welded in the wrong place or are you having a problem with the shock lining up to the mount ? Ive got a bunch of close up photos showing all the things that were wrong with my housing. If you want any to use as a comparison I'll gladly email them to you. I think I have them on a flash drive. My feeling is for the money that they're charging for their rear it should be dead nuts perfect.
V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
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Same problems as you. I have adjustable uppers, so I can rotate the rear no problem, but just like yours, if I rotate it anymore, the angle of the shock will get worse which is already off in the first place. No point in setting pinion angle since your damned with the springs or damned with the shocks. Its too bad, it is a work of art, too bad its so off.
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