My 1st Car. Am I in right area?

[Arji]

Back when I was 17 I bought my first car.
1981 3.8l v6 Buick Regal Sports Coupe (t-roofs also/turbo ect)

I knew nothing about it at the time, cept that I loved the look of it.
That car fit in with this msg board area?

Car History - Like any 17yr old I abused the crap outta it -sorry
Ended up blowing up the motor on DeerFoot in Calgary 7 yrs ago
Put a Buick 307 under the hood - biggest mistake I ever made
Girlfriend also loved the car. I married her =]
307 soon died, and car sat for 6 yrs.
Two mo ago. Came home form work, and saw that my kid (5 yr old)had removed the T-roofs. It was raining. Replaced t-roofs and locked car
Last Month (Aug). Son found car locked. So used a jack-all jack to smash in t-roofs. *screams*
Replaced both t-roofs with t-roofs from 85 monte carlo SS. Decided to fix up "the old girlfriend" as the wife calls it
Today - Discovered just how hard it is to find a 3.8L Turbo motor.

Guys help me out here? I NEED a 3.8L turbo motor.
Advice most welcome.

PS. Sorry if im at wrong msg board =]

Pss. I know it prob cheaper to just get another similar car, but cant do. This is my 1st car ever bought, and I WILL fix it.

 

[Tonya83T]

Welcome Aboard

Welcome to the site! And I wish you all the luck. Glad to hear ya wanna rebuilt it rather than just get rid of it. I think you are in the right place. There is a lot of information on this message board. I don't know where to tell ya to get a motor from, but someone else here might. Like I said GOOD LUCK!
Later
~ Tonya ~
http://www.geocities.com/tonyas_t_type/1983_T_Types.html

 

[Ttype83]

Yes you are in the right area
First I would find something else for your kid to play with
Check the parts for sale section for a block, any turbo block will due.
What did you do with the old eng? You will need the top half.

Check B4Black's web site for idea's (blow thru turbo)

 

[Arji]

THe old motor is gone long gone.
heh - ok 1st got a hold of salvage yard to replace blown motor.
It was another 3.8L Turbo and so they took the old one on trade.
The one I got from them was toast. It burned more oil then Fuel.
I demanded they take it back. Prob is they already had lost (?) my trade in orriginal motor. I took the 307 as a compromise. (Ok I was stupid) and they took the 3.8 back. That was all 7yrs ago, so as of now I have nothing motor wise.

Im impressed with the speed of responces on this site.
(God love the internet)
I found a Turbo 3.8 w/ tranny on Ebay for $900 and biddding US$
That a fair price? Its used with 45k miles

 

[Ttype83]

Very fair price so far.
I've seen blocks go for $1500 US and trans needing rebuild for $400.
Which trans is it? 200 R4 I hope.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Dude,

Get that 3.8 turbo. Put it back in....try to keep it the way it was made. It probably holds alot of sentimental value, but if you bring it back to life again, thats only half the enjoyment. Thats a really neat car! It gets better with time.

P.S. (I dont have one of those, I have an '81 Regal. It stood idle for about 9 months several years ago and my son wreaked havoc on it! Thank god he's grown out of it. But he still hates it. So does the rest of my family. Reason: They want more attention than what I give the old beast. My wife will always have a new car and the kids will grow up. As for me, I'll still have my old Buick Regal......)

Good Luck!

Freddie's Buick

 

[b4black]

Does/Did your '81 Turbo Regal have a ECM (computer controller)?

1981 was the year the that US Federal GM cars started using ECM's. The State of California started a year early, and export cars were a year behind. So your 1981 TR may have a 1980 US specification motor. This may make it a little easier to return to original, since it involves less wiring. It will be very important to figure out if you need a '80 or '81 (US) set up.

Also, the Regal shared the same Turbo motor as the Century, LeSabre and Chevrolet Monte Carlo.

When you turned over the Turbo Motor for a core, did all the turbo components go with it? Or just the long block? Finding all this stuff may be harder than the bare engine. You have several options for the long block (I'll reply to the other thread about this.)


I would pass on the Ebay motor. For $900 plus the shipping, you should be able to get an entire parts car. That way, you would be sure to have EVERYTHING you'll need.


If originality isn't important, a Blow-thru Turbo set-up (Vs the factory draw-thru) may be easier. Then there is also the 86/87 SFI/Turbo option, but this is costly. There are many ways to go, so I highly recommend doing as much research as possible before starting. And ask us a lot of questions.

 

[mr_85regal]

i adgree with everyone here.... i have a 85 Regal w/ the lil wimpy 3.8l 2bbl and i love the car even though its slower than dog$hit sliding downhill. i want to put a 8 in it but im keepin it the way it is. its also my first car.. i got it when i was 16 and now im 17 going on 18... i beat the hell out of it when i got it and it had 84k miles on it.. ive brokin 6 motor mounts, and a trans crossmember. but i still love the car. now it has 94k and i dont care about speed anymore.. i just wish i had T-Tops... i love the look. if i had a set a them and got my crager draglites up under there and put a 8 in it. oh nelly id love her forevea. id drop all my hoes for her. ... the 8cyl im talkin about is a 350ci chevy from Jasper that ive spokin about in another post. Me and my father are now lookin of r a 60's to early 70's GM. i want a Chevelle, Cutlass, or a old 70 sumtin monte.. id take a pontiac. but i want a good ol chevy in my book. the 350 is a 400hp+ motor w/ TBI. I am lookin for mainly a 67-71 Chevelle SS or a old 55-57 belair, or even a Impala. even a old chevy pick-up would be nice... i hate fords and id rather ride a huffy then drive a ford.

 

[Arji]

Thx everyone

I will pass then on the Ebay tranny / motor
The perfect parts car is also on Ebay. But since its all the way over in New york, I doubt I will be able to obtian it.
Check it out any who want a good parts car.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595006282

IM sure my Buick would be the non computer '81
I live in Alberta, Canada (above Montana), and this is a Canadian car. IE speedometer and odometer are in KiloMeters/hr

Im thinking Ill maybe throw in any ol 6 that will fit for now
spend my money on body restoration, and get the orriginal 3.8 turbo back at a later date.
I lost the Turbo package with the core. As stated I was stupid.
*kicks self yet again for surrendering that motor*

 

[PaulBZ65]

Is it sentimental reasons you want that motor back? I wouldnt fret of losing a 1981 Turbo 3.8 motor since they had a whopping 160 hp? or so and stock the car probably did the 1/4 mile in 17-18 second range .

Good luck getting a newer Turbo 3.8 if thats the motor you want, but dont worry about losing the old one too much .

 

[b4black]

It's not about horsepower, but torque. And at what RPM.

1981 TR:
170 HP @ 4000 PRM
275 ft/lbs @ 2400 RPM

1984 through 1988 MCSS:
180 HP @ 4800 RPM
225 ft/lbs @ 3200 RPM

For a stock '81 TR, this is only the starting point. A simple turn of a screw ups the boost.

 

[PaulBZ65]

Well if you have to choose one of the motors and keeping them stock for power, I think the L69 would be ahead of a 81' 3.8...which doesnt say much . The carbed Turbos are cool because of the rarity and how many are left(aka not for performance). The old LG3 305s also had 260 ft lbs of torque but I wouldnt want one of those .

I do like the older Turbo 3.8 cars too including the 80/81 Monte but would definately put in a newer SFI 3.8 and store the stock one away. Back to my point, he shouldnt worry about giving that motor up all that much.

 

[b4black]

If you want to compare apples to oranges, you need to taste both first. I've had a L69 MCSS, and I will take the Carb/Turbo every time. But I don't expect anybody whose never owned one to understand this. While it certainly is not a 86/87 Turbo V6, it isn't a slug either.

Having a SFI/Turbo V6 would be great, but I knowing the work involved and the cost, it makes almost no sense in this case. The best option is to return it to a Carb/Turbo. (or even a Blow-thru Turbo/Carb set up)



To take a '80/81 Turbo Monte and replace the drivetrain with a SFI/Turbo makes even less sense. It isn't as simple as changing motors; there is much more to it. The trans, wiring, rear end, fuel tanks, etc. There would be no benefit to starting with a Turbo Monte as opposed to a non-turbo, so why take apart a performance car to do it?

It's kinda like making a heavily modified drag car out of a GNX. By the time you are done, you've changed everything (Turbo, IC, Chip, Gauges, Wheels, etc) that differentiated the GNX from the GN. So you may have well started with a GN in the first place and saved $10,000.

 

[PaulBZ65]

When I say swap in the motor I also mean the wiring, accessories, gas tank for F.I., and get a 200-4r trans from the donor car, SS/442 if possible...but get a good one. You can live with the 7.5" rear end, if you dont use slicks and peel out all the time they can and do last...not recomending it though, heh....I have a 8.5" posi rear from a 87 GN in my 86SS with the powerful L69 in it . Its not merely "taking apart a performance car" if one is totalled or rotted away, and isnt worth rebuilding....its creating another one with its parts, and theres nothing wrong with that. Afterall this is a hobby, so spending some money shouldnt be an issue...and it really wouldnt cost a ton to do, as long as you can do most of the work yourself. I just stated doing it to a Turbo Monte as an example, never thought it would be easier...just a little bit cooler since its a factory Turbo 6 car, has the hood bulge, badging, VIN shows it, etc...same with doing it to any older car wiht a weaker motor for an upgrade....you might be the only person I know who speaks highly of the turbo/carb combo...then again most people probably never worked on one themselves either.

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by PaulBZ65
you might be the only person I know who speaks highly of the turbo/carb combo...then again most people probably never worked on one themselves either.

BINGO! Most people that critcize the Carb/Turbo have never even seen one. They just compare it to the mighty 86/87 TR, which is difficult for any car. (I'm not the only one who enjoys their Carb/Turbo, that's why there is this forum )

When I said taking apart a performance car, I wasn't reffering to the donor SFI/Turbo, I was reffering to the Carb/Turbo car. I'm all for putting 86/87 TR drivetrains into other cars, just not pulling a good Carb/Turbo to do it. (I'll be putting a 86/87 Turbo into a 80's Grand Prix someday.)

Spending some "hobby" money is great, but just getting the 86/87 drivetrain will run into the thousands. I don't think that's the solution Arji is looking for. Otherwise he wouldn't have been buying a junkyard motor in the first place.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Ok...Let's see.....

I think what this guy is saying is that the turbo 3.8's are cute....but not worth putting a performance effort into it. Thinks stickers, emblems, bulges and looks is what gives the mystic and prestige to this car.

Maybe stock performance during that era was'nt much....economy was the ticket. But from what I've heard from this forum, the 3.8 V-6 was still the heart of the later SFI GNX cars. Same motor-better plumbing. So would'nt that contradict what this gentleman is saying about the '81 turbo motor? I mean one can take a earlier 3.8 and plumb it up with some later hardware, aftermarket upgrades and still have one darn fast car !

I'd like to see this guy put his L69 up against Fred Carrados earlier turbo V-6 3.8 mock up and see if he still feels the same about what he said. He might want a carbed turbo sooner then he'd like....

 

[PaulBZ65]

Ok, looks like someone took what I was saying out of context again.

I never said having badges/hood bulges/emblems makes a car cool or whatever , ok so you think doing that swap to a lets say LG3 80' Monte would be neater than a factory 80' Turbo 3.8 MC? Then again I shouldnt expect any more since this is the non SFI forum and youll defend that motor set up, nothing wrong with that either. Take a breather .

And bashing the L69 is pretty old, no kidding its not powerful, everyone knows it isnt....it was decent for the 80s though(people tend to overlook this), the 305 TPI f-bodies weren't much more powerful . Anyone can modify any engine too, no matter how much of a chore it is...just ask many import guys . Its relativley easy to build up a L69 as well but you dont see me doing it....I never bashed the old Carb/Turbo set up just basically said it isnt a powerhouse, you could do the same or the L69(dont see many of either at the tracks heh). Give a little respect, they do last long time ya know . Seems everyone thinks Im keeping my L69? Surrrre.

 

[Arji]

Ok everyone, Im trying to keep up.
Keep in mind im mechanically challenged
(Im a sparky by trade, not a mechanic)

So to see if im getting all this. What I had was a Carberated Turbo 3.8L motor. This is a far different animal then the 86/87 TR I take it. I can not put a 86/87 TR in my baby w/o some major redesign (including a diff tranny)?

 

[b4black]

The return your car to a Carb/Turbo, you will need a long block and the associated turbo parts that bolt to it.

To convert to a SFI/Turbo, you will need the same, plus ECM/wiring, and fuel tank/lines, at a minimum. To take advantage of the additional power you will want a 200-4R trans and a 8.5" rear end.

Then the is a decision about going with an ntercoooled motor (86/87) or a Hot Air (84/85). IC = more power, but higher initial cost.

It would take a considerable amount of work and money. BUT, the pay-off would be considerably more power. Best way to get this power would be to buy a 84/87 TR, instead of converting another car, IN MY OPINION.

Keep evaluting your options. You can't lose whichever Turbo V6 you choose. It all depends on how much power you want, and how much you are willing to spend. You already know what a '81 TR can do stock. Find out how fast a 86/87 TR is (really fast) and how much it will cost.

Good Luck!

 

[mr_85regal]

There not all that different.... the Rears are diffrent and the gearing too i believe. but it can handle the power... if its a 3 spd its most likely a TH350 which is a pritty good tranny to beat on.. trust me. now if its the 4spd its teh TH200R4.i believe. theres some good posts in the Transmission Talk how to beaf up the 200R. But there will be a noticable power increase w/ the 86-87 T/R motor. the intercooler did alot for the power.... good luck though and get "The old girlfriend" up and runnin.