my build list. complete?? advice, please.

[kaj]

If you do the wideband with a turbo tweak6.0 chip it will tune to your desired af. The first things you need to do is fuel pump, hot-wire, adj regulator,60# injectors, scanmaster. Then from there upgrade

I like the sound of that. How does a chip know the a/f? Am I splicing the 5v output into a harness? Pin out? An adapter? I'll Google the chip. Thanks.
Pump, hot wire kit, FPR, and 60#s are on the way. Next, from the sound of it, is to get a Scanmaster

Run the stock ecm, keep the stock boost soleniod and use the adjustable rod on the actuator to dial in the boost. I run the Boost Commander for adjusting the boost. It's nice to just turn a knob.

I'll look that up as well. A type of electronic boost controller? I imagine I won't be running a LOT more boost, seeing how I'm on 91oct. I've decided on a front mount as a bit more insurance from detonation.

This is turning out to be much more simple and cheaper than I thought!

 

[87_we4]

I'd put the scanmaster at top of the list. It's like insurance! Get a adjustable wastegate your only gonna be able to run 15-18 psi on pump gas. Talk to Eric at turbo tweak he can explain what needs to be done with the 6.0 chip and wideband. Power logger is a great thing to have also. You can tie your wideband into it and map sensor

 

[87_we4]

No need for a fmic. Just get a larger slic

 

[Pronto]

Kaj
Vortex Buicks
Read everything on this site. Don't spend a dime until you understand most of it. You've got a lot to learn and forget from your import days.
Check that, buy a scanmaster first.

 

[kaj]

Kaj
Vortex Buicks
Read everything on this site. Don't spend a dime until you understand most of it. You've got a lot to learn and forget from your import days.
Check that, buy a scanmaster first.

so how 'bout something like this:

A Scanmaster
A fuel pressure gauge and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (Accufab?)
An accurate analog boost gauge (i hate Autometer.. but they are common)
A 2.5" free flowing exhaust kit (i plan to do 3", if it helps? we've always used 3" on our turbo cars)
An open K&N air filter (such as a simple K&N cold air intake system?)
A modern, programmable chip (TurboTweak?)
A 340m fuel pump, or, equivalent (Walbro)
A fuel pump hotwire kit (ordered from Full Throttle)
A stock '87 turbo
A set of 55 lb injectors
Big Boy FMIC from Full Throttle

from what i understand, the Scanmaster is needed. i already ordered that. a PowerLogger enables more accurate/faster reading of the ECU's parameters? and it will also allow me to ditch the MAF and go Speed Density. that saves me from having to buy a 3.5" MAF (i, instead, buy a 3BAR MAP sensor) and i only have to move the location of the Intake Air Temp sensor.

from there, for as little boost as i can run with 91oct, i can adjust the turbo's actuator arm to get the desired boost level? if not, i can ditch the OEM boost solenoid in favor of an electronic boost controller.

did i understand that right? getting closer? LOL. i seriously feel dumb here. haha. steep learning curve, i guess!

 

["Turbo-T"]

kaj, one suggestion...I'd opt for a methanol injection kit before the FMIC. You can run the stock I/C for now, maybe have a Dutt neck added...Dutt neck opens up the I/C inlet from 2 inches to 2.5 inches. Good for an extra 2 psi. Dutt neck new is $70, figure an extra $30 to have it welded on. OTOH an alky kit allows you to run upwards of 20-22 psi with pump gas, depending on your octane level. Best alky kit for a turbo Buick IMO is the Alkycontrol kit. The seller is Razor on this board and he's very supportive.

 

[kaj]

kaj, one suggestion...I'd opt for a methanol injection kit before the FMIC. You can run the stock I/C for now, maybe have a Dutt neck added...Dutt neck opens up the I/C inlet from 2 inches to 2.5 inches. Good for an extra 2 psi. Dutt neck new is $70, figure an extra $30 to have it welded on. OTOH an alky kit allows you to run upwards of 20-22 psi with pump gas, depending on your octane level. Best alky kit for a turbo Buick IMO is the Alkycontrol kit. The seller is Razor on this board and he's very supportive.

i REALLY don't want to do methanol. but damn. that is a big jump in the amount of boost i can run.
i'm guessing a turbotweak can be programmed to deal with all this?

i suppose i could have a chip for methanol and a chip for pump gas, in case i decide to take a long trip, or something?

 

[charlief1]

I am taking a breath so I can reply to you in a calm, cool, and collected fashion. First off, you can keep the ricer comments to yourself. In case you haven't noticed, GENIUS, I am taking all info into consideration. I want to do this right without wasting time on things I don't need but at the same time not cut corners, all while keeping the car as reliable as possible. Hence all my posts and PMs to people while I figure this out.
Id appreciate your not talking to me like I'm some pimple-faced 18yr old kid who bought his car after watching Fast and furious too many times. You dont know anything about me, nor what I have built In the past. I have been talking to and PMing SO many people. I'm sure I've talked to a scott, a dave, an Aaron or two. Lots of people and all with their own opinions of what is best. how am I supposed to know who is right? Not to mention they are all trying to sell me what they have.. so of COURSE its the best way to go. But, I'm just a ricer. All I want Is a blow off valve. Amirite??? And thank you for the welcome. This car is opposite of my last in so many ways (even color) and I'm super stoked to be trying something new!

Anyway.. Now, back to those that are trying to help:
Please keep the ideas coming. Sooner or later, with all your help, ill be able to piece together what I need to do. I still have a week before the car is delivered.

Kaj, please understand that the kind of questions you've posted here are subjective and it really takes a great deal of research to do what you want to do to the car. Are you planning to do this all your self?

We get a lot of guys on here that act just like you're acting right now and we've all seen more than one blow up. I think the last one was named Ilive4GNs and he just started putting things together without knowing what he was doing. The engine lasted about 5 minutes because he was in a hurry to get it together and had no clue what he was doing.

You may get pissed but we are trying to help you get the results you want out of the car and if you don't understand that these cars are not only old but operate on a computer that is slower than a 386 not to mention very out of date and downright cranky, then you need to slow down and do the research that will help you out.

My car is just starting to go back together and it's been slow to say the least. I had to build my own turbo upgrade because there isn't one for the earliest of these cars and it has taken me time to understnad how to do it as well as how I want to do the car. I asked a bunch of stupid questions at first and didn't get a lot of answers because no one wanted to deal with the B4black car tech.

You're posting a great deal of stuff you want to do and I will give you so very sound advice about what you are planning to do to the car.

1 Write everything down first of all.

2 Put the complete list down for at least a month and do the research about the car as well as total costs.

3 Go back and and look at the list and see if it's feasable or not and then go with the knowledge you've gained and the money you've save up and start implimenting the plan.

 

[kaj]

Kaj, please understand that the kind of questions you've posted here are subjective and it really takes a great deal of research to do what you want to do to the car. Are you planning to do this all your self?

We get a lot of guys on here that act just like you're acting right now and we've all seen more than one blow up. I think the last one was named Ilive4GNs and he just started putting things together without knowing what he was doing. The engine lasted about 5 minutes because he was in a hurry to get it together and had no clue what he was doing.

You may get pissed but we are trying to help you get the results you want out of the car and if you don't understand that these cars are not only old but operate on a computer that is slower than a 386 not to mention very out of date and downright cranky, then you need to slow down and do the research that will help you out.

My car is just starting to go back together and it's been slow to say the least. I had to build my own turbo upgrade because there isn't one for the earliest of these cars and it has taken me time to understnad how to do it as well as how I want to do the car. I asked a bunch of stupid questions at first and didn't get a lot of answers because no one wanted to deal with the B4black car tech.

You're posting a great deal of stuff you want to do and I will give you so very sound advice about what you are planning to do to the car.

1 Write everything down first of all.

2 Put the complete list down for at least a month and do the research about the car as well as total costs.

3 Go back and and look at the list and see if it's feasable or not and then go with the knowledge you've gained and the money you've save up and start implimenting the plan.

that's more or less where i'm at. i have a list, finally. i think. i can have the ENTIRE car done the way i want for about $5600 (wheels/touch up/power/etc). not bad, in my opinion. this is all with not-too-crazy modifications that will make the car fun.
basically, i'm swapping to a complete '87 setup, but keeping my '85 block and heads, as they are rebuilt. adding a front mount, and MAYBE the Alky kit.
other than that, Scanmaster and Powerlogger. add the pump/FPR/hotwire/wideband and i believe i'm done. i'm not listing every nut and bolt, but you get the idea.
i expect the car to have a bit more pep. nothing record breaking. i'll be doing the install on my own, but having my tuner do the final check.
i'm not ordering this stuff today. i'll be doing the wheels, injectors, and other smaller things that i know i will use sooner or later. but the larger purchases will be saved until i'm 1,000,000% sure it will work.
my goals will not change. it's a fun car, not a race car.

i hope i'm not giving the impression i'm just going to throw money at this thing until it works. i'm not rich. once my budget is gone, i'm done indefinitely. that's why i only want to do this once and do it right.

the point of this car is for my son and i to have fun building up. everything i do, he'll be helping me with. i'm in no hurry to get this thing to a race track. we'll drive it at first. then we'll drive it with the '87 stuff on it. then we'll start modifying it piece by piece.. i just want to have them in the garage ready to go when we need them.


so that's where i'm at. i'm excited. i'm doing my best to be patient. but more or less, i'm trying to be as responsible as i can. i started out ready to buy every gizmo available. but.. now i see i don't need to get so crazy for what i want out of the car. that's awesome!

jason

 

[charlief1]

To be honest with you $5600 would just get the engine built properly so it doesn't blow up. Not kidding here. If you do a lot of scrounging you might get it for less but the amount you're talking about is very small for a TB, seriously.

 

[RIFF RAFF]

Thats

What i was trying to say . Look at some of these guys sigs that are responding to your post that pretty much sums up what works and works good .you dont need to get wild to met your goals once you do the 87 convert these cars are a whole different beast and the convert will be hard enough on its own. But when you get it right you'll suck the doors off a 12sec honda as u pass them .if your not going to go alky just go overkill on fuel delivery .im not runnig alky .and if you get this right the first time you'll be hooked for life and thats good for our vendors .so good luck to you and i will help where i can . But get the car first because it might need more addressed than you think ..

 

[Pronto]

Better list but I would skip the SD chip until you understand the TB better. Eric's chips ARE the balls. Many, many fast TBs run them. Simple Translator and MAF would be fine. I wouldn't even worry about a frontmount. You will need to upgrade the radiator or risk running hot which all frontmounts do. Tons of lightly modded intercooled TBs run in the low 12s-11s. Don't get caught up in the-as Grumpy calls them-Cool Guy parts. Remember KISS. Just doing the swap if you have no TB experience is going to be challenging enough. Bet you find all kinds of things like wiring glitches and other frustations. Why make it harder?

 

[kaj]

What i was trying to say . Look at some of these guys sigs that are responding to your post that pretty much sums up what works and works good .you dont need to get wild to met your goals once you do the 87 convert these cars are a whole different beast and the convert will be hard enough on its own. But when you get it right you'll suck the doors off a 12sec honda as u pass them .if your not going to go alky just go overkill on fuel delivery .im not runnig alky .and if you get this right the first time you'll be hooked for life and thats good for our vendors .so good luck to you and i will help where i can . But get the car first because it might need more addressed than you think ..

Better list but I would skip the SD chip until you understand the TB better. Eric's chips ARE the balls. Many, many fast TBs run them. Simple Translator and MAF would be fine. I wouldn't even worry about a frontmount. You will need to upgrade the radiator or risk running hot which all frontmounts do. Tons of lightly modded intercooled TBs run in the low 12s-11s. Don't get caught up in the-as Grumpy calls them-Cool Guy parts. Remember KISS. Just doing the swap if you have no TB experience is going to be challenging enough. Bet you find all kinds of things like wiring glitches and other frustations. Why make it harder?

solid advice. way to keep a guy grounded. i've decided to hold on to my cash until i can inspect the car. i just found there is a quarter-sized dent on one of the front fenders. this makes me think "what else?".
i'll get the dent fixed, the paint done, then swap the '87 parts on. after, i'll just start working my way up from there. wheels and tires to get it how i want, exhaust, radiator (i DID notice it seems the IC will affect air flow), and an air intake. basic bolt-ons.
after all this (and some fun driving it), i'll start making my improvements.

 

[Pronto]

Good plan. Find some local TB guys if you can. It alway helps to have someone else's car to look a incase you need to check where stuff goes.

 

[kaj]

Good plan. Find some local TB guys if you can. It alway helps to have someone else's car to look a incase you need to check where stuff goes.

i hear there a couple. not sure how to find them, though. LOL

also.. i'm looking at a STRAIGHT-bodied '83 T-Type. paint looks a bit faded (painted black to resemble a GN). perfect interior. engine won't run. comes with a spare that is "supposedly" rebuilt. looks like some paint chips here and there on the car. no rust. all for $700.

i can't decide: project? parts car? part-out on ebay? right now i'm thinking to buy and part out. i could really use the money.

 

[that national]

alright, let me get this straight as i think some of these guys might be confused your keeping the hot air motor and just putting a different turbo and an intercooler on it, correct?

also i noticed you said if you get the powerlogger you can get rid of the MAF, the power logger just logs the engines paramaters you cant just get rid of the MAF unless you go with the maf-t pro or the turbo tweak chip that allows you to do so (i think its the 6.0)

 

[kaj]

alright, let me get this straight as i think some of these guys might be confused your keeping the hot air motor and just putting a different turbo and an intercooler on it, correct?

also i noticed you said if you get the powerlogger you can get rid of the MAF, the power logger just logs the engines paramaters you cant just get rid of the MAF unless you go with the maf-t pro or the turbo tweak chip that allows you to do so (i think its the 6.0)

correct. i was going to do a complete swap to an '87 powerplant, but it turns out my bottom end and heads have all been rebuilt, so i will stick with them for now. the block and heads will remain, the intake manifold, turbo, exhaust manifolds, crossover pipe, harness, and ECU will all be from an '87. only the heads and block will be from the '85.
i do have access to two other engines, but i think one is an '83, the other an '85. i don't think i would be lucky enough to have any of them be '86-87.

 

[that national]

alright, there are some differences between the 84-85 blocks and the 86-87 blocks

84-85 block

86-87 block, notice the oil return for the turbo on the top

84-85 block

86-87 block, lifter valley is different

84-85 block

86-87 block, more oil pan holes

 

[kaj]

it's my understanding i tap the oil return line into the block or to a bulkhead fitting on the oil pan. this will work?

thanks for the heads up on blocks. i'll see what i have ASAP. maybe i'll get lucky on one of the extra engines! so.. given the differences, will the hot-air block hold enough power to run 11s or 12s?

 

["Turbo-T"]

i REALLY don't want to do methanol. but damn. that is a big jump in the amount of boost i can run.
i'm guessing a turbotweak can be programmed to deal with all this?

i suppose i could have a chip for methanol and a chip for pump gas, in case i decide to take a long trip, or something?

Yes Eric can burn you a chip to work with the meth. You could do 2 chips or if you have a Scanmaster, Erics chips will allow you to change the timing setting and the fuel settings of the chip. If/when you didn't want to run meth, you could manually turn the boost down to 15-17 psi and then back off the timing so you don't get a lot of knock.