Mythbusters tackles the plane/treadmill
- Thread starter Pitbozz
- Start date
Without a wind component passing over the wing the airplane will not achieve flight..IAS(Indicated airspeed) is measured by ram air passing through a pitot tube...if plane is stationary there will not be an IAS. If the wheels on the plane are moving and the tread can match the speed at which the wheels turn..the aircraft will not move. If you had a very light aircraft and did the tread test into the wind on a windy day 30+ knots..It might be possible for the plane to leave the ground IF the plane was configured for a short field takeoff..:smile:
You pose a few good points, you are wrong but there are good points. :biggrin:
IAS is measured when the plane is moving forward because the engine are pushing it forward. The wheel will match the treadmill, true, but the plane in relation to the air around it is moving forward because of the engine thrust. Therefore you will get IAS and the plane when reaches the necessary IAS it will fly.
Depends on how long it takes the flight crew to convince the ground crew I guess.
When is the meet again this year? I need to make plans to attend again. This time I will make sure my tires are in good shape.
IAS is not a measurement of engine thrust..The plane will only takeoff if it overcomes the tread due to the fact that the tread will not keep up. They can do their internet tests with their model airplane that weight 2 ounces but I would like to see the test on mythbuster if they use a real airplane.
Brer Rabbit
Pursuit Specialist
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2005
Not sure on the meet yet...
But I will return ur hitch assembly on that day
I suspect that topic will start to be discussed now that U brought it up.
But I will return ur hitch assembly on that day
I suspect that topic will start to be discussed now that U brought it up.darkred87T
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2003
Dude...you totally lost me. The string is tied to a bookcase in front of the treadmill. It is only there to keep the toy plane from running off the side of the treadmill. It cannot possibly increase the planes forward momentum. if anything it will provide more drag and prevent it from moving, which it didn't. Oh...and:
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The airplane will take off. God help the wheel bearings as they will be spinning twice as fast as the required take off speed. Say the recommended take off speed is 100kts. The airplane will accelerate into the relative wind no matter what the landing gear is doing because the thrust provided by the engines is acting on the air, not the ground. When the aircraft is traveling at 100kts indicated, the ground speed at the treadmill will be 200kts. (the landing gear wheels will be spinning at a speed of 200kts) Similarly, if the aircraft was held in place somehow and had a 100kt headwind, it could take off even if the wheels on the gear were not rotating.
I love this argument. It is amusing to me because I know that I am right and the grounded guys are wrong. It is a simple thing that people over complicate.
What I REALLY love is when it finally clicks for people, they still don't want to admit they were wrong and will spew the, "OH!! HAHA! I read the question wrong! Of course the plane will takeoff!".
GROUND SPEED IS MEANINGLESS TO THE FLIGHT OF AIRCRAFT!
How hard is that to understand!
Air speed and ground speed are completely unrelated. Ground speed could be a zillion miles per hour... what does that mean for air speed? ZILCH... thats why flight instruments use IAS yes from the pitot tube, to tell the pilot what the plane is doing. NOT ground speed even though that could easily be used with GPS tracking. This is why stall horns do not work based upon ground speed... if they did there would be many many more planes falling out of the sky on final. IAS isnt even a completely reliable indicator for TAS as it is barometic pressure dependent but I digress.
I get the sense that many who feel the plane won't fly don't have a very thorough understanding of how aircraft fly.
Get into a cockpit of any plane with traditional instrumentation and find me the GROUND SPEED indicator on the instrument panel. I'll give you my t-type if you can find one. If ground speed were important, it would be there.
BTW I work on aircraft for a living if that makes any difference.
If you can't grasp this concept, there is no hope for you
How hard is that to understand!
Air speed and ground speed are completely unrelated. Ground speed could be a zillion miles per hour... what does that mean for air speed? ZILCH... thats why flight instruments use IAS yes from the pitot tube, to tell the pilot what the plane is doing. NOT ground speed even though that could easily be used with GPS tracking. This is why stall horns do not work based upon ground speed... if they did there would be many many more planes falling out of the sky on final. IAS isnt even a completely reliable indicator for TAS as it is barometic pressure dependent but I digress.
I get the sense that many who feel the plane won't fly don't have a very thorough understanding of how aircraft fly.
Get into a cockpit of any plane with traditional instrumentation and find me the GROUND SPEED indicator on the instrument panel. I'll give you my t-type if you can find one. If ground speed were important, it would be there.
BTW I work on aircraft for a living if that makes any difference.
If you can't grasp this concept, there is no hope for you
I didn't bother reading many of the posts on this subject. Honestly, I can even imagine why this is even being debated.
OF COURSE THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF!!!!
The ONLY thing the treadmill will do is increase the rpm of the plane's wheels when it takes off. The plane will still develop the EXACT same forward velocity in the exact same amount of time as it would if there were no treadmill. The wheels will be spinning faster, that's the only difference!
The planes engines (doesn't matter if it's a turbine engine, propeller or even a rocket engine) generate thrust against the *air*, NOT THE GROUND!
I like the MythBusters show, but all too often I find myself shaking my head at their methods and at some of the questions they attempt to "answer".
OF COURSE THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF!!!!
The ONLY thing the treadmill will do is increase the rpm of the plane's wheels when it takes off. The plane will still develop the EXACT same forward velocity in the exact same amount of time as it would if there were no treadmill. The wheels will be spinning faster, that's the only difference!
The planes engines (doesn't matter if it's a turbine engine, propeller or even a rocket engine) generate thrust against the *air*, NOT THE GROUND!
I like the MythBusters show, but all too often I find myself shaking my head at their methods and at some of the questions they attempt to "answer".
I didn't bother reading many of the posts on this subject. Honestly, I can even imagine why this is even being debated.
OF COURSE THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF!!!!
The ONLY thing the treadmill will do is increase the rpm of the plane's wheels when it takes off. The plane will still develop the EXACT same forward velocity in the exact same amount of time as it would if there were no treadmill. The wheels will be spinning faster, that's the only difference!
The planes engines (doesn't matter if it's a turbine engine, propeller or even a rocket engine) generate thrust against the *air*, NOT THE GROUND!
I like the MythBusters show, but all too often I find myself shaking my head at their methods and at some of the questions they attempt to "answer".
This one has derailed the internet for long enough, though. I believe they tested this one by using an ultralight on a big conveyor belt. So they SHOULD get it right.
It will FLY it does have to over come some of the treadmill force but as long as it picks up the air flow and go faster then the treadmill is moving and get to air speed before it runs out of treadmill then up it goes
I doubt the amount of resistance the treadmill will provide will even be measureable.
The plane accelerates to 10mph. So does the treadmill. The plane accelerates to 20 mph. So does the treadmill. On and on until the plane takes off just like normal with the wheels spinning twice as fast as the plane is moving.
Everything physics wise works exactly the same. The plane will move forward as if it was on an ordinary runway.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.
The treadmill is irrelevant.