na crank & rods

[billhead]

Are the crank and rods from a 1987 na 109 block the same as the turbo engine? I have found a good deal on a na 109 engine and would like to know if these pieces will work. This motor should have 8445 heads correct? Thanks guys

 

[pacecarta]

block , same if not better better than the turbo block since it will be a seasoned block that never saw the extreme stress of a turbo early in life so it should be a very square and stable foundation for a build..just have to drill the hole in front for the turbo oil drain return fitting (or run it to the pan)

crank should be the na but ive heard of the turbo crank popping up in some
, the turbo crank starts as a n/a crank but turbo crank has the pressed radius on the main journals and the rod journals, the n/a is only pressed on the main journals, the press adds strength but how much much the press radius helps and at what point the lack of the radius on the rod journals will cause a falure i dont think any one knows but n/a cranks have been in the mid tens , i would do a rebalance with the turbo pistons and turbo balancer /flexplate

the n/a rods are same 2 dot rods as the turbo used'
heads are same 8445 castings
the n/a pistons arent built to take the abuse of the turbo
the balancer and flywheel are balanced differently than the turbo and the balancer on the n/a lacks the crank sensor ring
motor mounts are the same but new is cheap enough, just keep the bolts

front timing cover /waterpump/oilpump is the same

oilpan is same except for the baffle that the turbo has but you could make a baffle and tack it in place , there a template for the baffle somewhere on the web

the rest is jjjuunnkk

 

[87buickracer]

block , same if not better better than the turbo block since it will be a seasoned block that never saw the extreme stress of a turbo early in life so it should be a very square and stable foundation for a build..just have to drill the hole in front for the turbo oil drain return fitting (or run it to the pan)

crank should be the na but ive heard of the turbo crank popping up in some
, the turbo crank starts as a n/a crank but turbo crank has the pressed radius on the main journals and the rod journals, the n/a is only pressed on the main journals, the press adds strength but how much much the press radius helps and at what point the lack of the radius on the rod journals will cause a falure i dont think any one knows but n/a cranks have been in the mid tens , i would do a rebalance with the turbo pistons and turbo balancer /flexplate

the n/a rods are same 2 dot rods as the turbo used'
heads are same 8445 castings
the n/a pistons arent built to take the abuse of the turbo
the balancer and flywheel are balanced differently than the turbo and the balancer on the n/a lacks the crank sensor ring
motor mounts are the same but new is cheap enough, just keep the bolts

front timing cover /waterpump/oilpump is the same

oilpan is same except for the baffle that the turbo has but you could make a baffle and tack it in place , there a template for the baffle somewhere on the web

the rest is jjjuunnkk

If he went with a distributor set-up instead of cam sensor he may be able to run non-turbo balancer..just a thought I will have to look into..

 

[bison]

If he went with a distributor set-up instead of cam sensor he may be able to run non-turbo balancer..just a thought I will have to look into..

He could still run the non sequential balancer but he will need a donor balancer to pull the ring off of if he wants the sequential LC2 setup . Then turn the area behind the hub in a lathe and press the ring on in the correct position. Kind of a waste with the ****ty NA piston though

 

[87buickracer]

He could still run the non sequential balancer but he will need a donor balancer to pull the ring off of if he wants the sequential LC2 setup . Then turn the area behind the hub in a lathe and press the ring on in the correct position. Kind of a waste with the ****ty NA piston though

I have a couple of na blocks,but never used the na stuff myself..your right,much easier to just use the 87 parts..I'm surprised at the number of na blocks that are turning up in salvage yards..I found 3 in one day..still looking for a 4.1 block,those are a little harder to find..

 

[bison]

I have a couple of na blocks,but never used the na stuff myself..your right,much easier to just use the 87 parts..I'm surprised at the number of na blocks that are turning up in salvage yards..I found 3 in one day..still looking for a 4.1 block,those are a little harder to find..

I surprised your surprised. They produced so many they are everywhere. I remember back in the mid 90's i would see 20-30 86-87 vin A regals or cutlass with na engines in a junk yard at any given time. They are not and will not ever be rare. Bare blocks are worth about $300.

 

[ttaowner]

those 109 blocks are not so easy to come by these days! produced for 2 years 22 plus years ago. well scrap was over $250 a ton last summer and
A LOT of good cars were scrapped!!!!!!! guess what cash for clunkers is not helping our cause either! i had my eye on a 87 cutlass that looked mint have been watching it for over 2 years every day i passed by it well 3 weeks ago it disappeared guess where it is behind our local hyundai dealership i guess the $4500 they gave him for it was irresitable. once it gets to the junkyard they are not allowed to sell the engine out of it. $500 109 blocks are around the corner my friends just watch!!!!


brian how may 109 blocks have you thrown away or passed on that were cheap in the past???

 

[mikestertwo]

Are the crank and rods from a 1987 na 109 block the same as the turbo engine? I have found a good deal on a na 109 engine and would like to know if these pieces will work. This motor should have 8445 heads correct? Thanks guys

If it's an 87' there's a good chance it has the same crank and rods as a turbo motor. I pulled 3 87' N/A engines out of the bone yard and all 3 had the turbo crank and rods. 2 out of 87' Regals, 1 out of an 87' Cutlass Supreme. :smile:

 

[bison]

those 109 blocks are not so easy to come by these days! produced for 2 years 22 plus years ago. well scrap was over $250 a ton last summer and
A LOT of good cars were scrapped!!!!!!! guess what cash for clunkers is not helping our cause either! i had my eye on a 87 cutlass that looked mint have been watching it for over 2 years every day i passed by it well 3 weeks ago it disappeared guess where it is behind our local hyundai dealership i guess the $4500 they gave him for it was irresitable. once it gets to the junkyard they are not allowed to sell the engine out of it. $500 109 blocks are around the corner my friends just watch!!!!


brian how may 109 blocks have you thrown away or passed on that were cheap in the past???

Ive given away 2. Thrown away more than that and saw hundreds over the years in g-bodies in the junkyard. $550 for a complete guaranteed one at the local junkyards right now. I used to pay $100ea for 4.1 cores and just pull the cranks out of them. 9 out of 10 had the correct crank. The 20 bolt pan 1985 140 casting works well but you need to use the thin steel (.040) head gasket since the deck height is a little taller.

 

[BIGPSI]

i've had a 20 bolt 1985 complete motor under my workbench for some time. is it worth keeping ,and maybe build one day? i also have an extra 109 turbo motor with 41,000 miles,so the 1985 block would be a 2nd backup

 

[bison]

i've had a 20 bolt 1985 complete motor under my workbench for some time. is it worth keeping ,and maybe build one day? i also have an extra 109 turbo motor with 41,000 miles,so the 1985 block would be a 2nd backup

The block is as good as any other

 

[BIGPSI]

thanks, bison