NASCAR Pocono?

[Rivical]

I'm surprised that there's no thread here...

As a Kurt Busch fan I'm angry at Jimmy Johnson's unsportsman-like conduct of 'driving through' a competitor. That was just dirty, to take another racer's wheels off the ground and then turn out from under rather than hold the line until the issue resolved itself like a normal bump draft would. Despite being a KB fan and upset about Bowyer's inclusion in it too, I'm most disgusted by what happened to Saddler. It hasn't been long ago that the violent end of his day would have been fatal!!!!!!!
I hope that NASCAR see's their way to some happy medium of involvement in regulating the conduct of the ego's playing the field for our entertainment and their gratification. Saddler's never been somebody of interest to me, but had he been forever taken from us from such an assinine stunt I'd have an even harder time accepting NASCAR's legitimacy as a governing body, dedicated to the safety of competitor's.

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[SGRIM]

Got a video link?

 

[1 RARE T]

The 48 was bump drafting the 2 just like they had done all day. It just went bad.

The fact that you don't see past the show that Kurt puts on for TV. is amazing.

Listen to his in car radio. That's the real Kurt.

 

[Rivical]

I didn't get some uneditted in-car feed, but I can imagine what anybody would say in that situation! What would you like anybody to say about that? What I saw was Johnson jack a car up, then change lanes, no matter who it was. In this video @ around 3:30 they were already making excuses for Johnson though. Sadler's crash doesn't get a good angle, but comes inro the bottom right of screen @ 3:38. I'm just glad he walked away, let-alone is alive!

YouTube - Busch and Sadler Huge Crashes Nascar Sprint Cup 2010 Pocono (HD)

 

[novaderrik]

as much as i dislike Jimmy Johnson ( i dilslike him a lot, and not just because he's won the championship 4 times in a row. i just don't like him, never have) i don't think he did anything wrong in this case. he was bump drafting, and Kurt got sideways. with another car on the outside like that taking away all the side force that keeps the car going straight at 200mph, it doesn't take much to turn a car.
if you watch, Johnson's car doesn't begin to turn towards the bottom of the track until after Kurt's car starts going sideways into (i think) Clint Bowyer's car. he held his line until it was obvious to him that it was time to turn left or get taken out, and had a fraction of a second to decide where to go.
it was just one of those things that happens when you race that close to each other at those speeds- one of the things that makes watching the fast races so exciting. it's amazing there isn't a wreck like this in every corner of every lap.
Sadler was about 1/4 mile back from it and got caught up in it when he saw the smoke and checked up and the guy behind him didn't- as a result, he took one hell of a hard hit when he hit that guardrail that had no business being there in the first place.


i seem to remember that Kurt Busch used to cause a wreck like this almost every week when he was starting out in Cup, until he got straightened out by Jimmy Spencer on pit road after a race. but he never caused the wreck because he was trying to bumpdraft down the back straight- he caused them because he had no regard for anyone else out on the track and didn't care who he had to run over to get to the front. as i said, i don't like Jimmy Johnson, but he is generally a clean driver that tends to not spin people out or plow them into the wall to get past them. he's too busy not putting scratches on the car so it looks good after the race..

 

[1 RARE T]

Could'nt agree more with the above post.

Pretty much says it all from someone who does'nt like Johnson but knows the facts.

Jimmy Spensor tuned up Kurt in Michigan because he said on the radio that if he got to him, he was going to put him in the fence.

After many rants over the radio and outbursts on tv, Roger Penske made the phoney puppet you see on the screen. Pathetic really.

Actually many of them have turned into that. The show "race in 60" on Speed gives a little more honest look at what really goes on over the radio.

 

[SGRIM]

Looked like NASCAR to me....

 

[novaderrik]

Could'nt agree more with the above post.

Pretty much says it all from someone who does'nt like Johnson but knows the facts.

Jimmy Spensor tuned up Kurt in Michigan because he said on the radio that if he got to him, he was going to put him in the fence.

After many rants over the radio and outbursts on tv, Roger Penske made the phoney puppet you see on the screen. Pathetic really.

Actually many of them have turned into that. The show "race in 60" on Speed gives a little more honest look at what really goes on over the radio.

how about those radio exchanges between Montoya and his crew chief? they make Juan come across as a spoiled little brat..

 

[novaderrik]

Looked like NASCAR to me....

it was NASCAR- but not the fake hyped NASCAR everyone always complains about.
it was stuff going wrong while the cars were covering the distance of a football field every second. watch an actual speed replay of it and tell me what you would have done better than the guys out there that live for this and do it week after week..

 

[The Blob]

Jimmy Johnson clearly did not do that on purpose.

What's hilarious is that when Dale Earnhardt did do that stuff on purpose everybody thought it was awesome.

 

[Rivical]

I dunno. I'd accept it as a racing mistake that took my guy out yet again were it not for Sadler's involvement. THAT really bothered me. I don't even care about his career, but WOW! That could have been the violent end of it! Just the same, it sure appeared in the side angle that Jimmy began to move left down that straight too soon, instead of giving Kurt the opportunity of equal benefit from the initial contact. I'd say that Kurt has taken some hard licks in what I'll agree has been a lame effort to correct his previous image and integrate into the big show. But really, without personally being a psychotic fan-atic who watches multiple TV programs later involving what's usually a radio account on a busy day for-me, it's always been my opinion that Kurt's early behavior was just a hold-over from a smalltime mentality which got straightened out and life went on. Honestly, if Coors was still around, I'd probably primarily like Sterling's replacement more than Rusty's, but that's how it goes... Sorry but I'm just not a fan of crashes or the mistakes that cause them. As spectacular as they are to watch I'm just one of those people who believe that people trained in any excersize of the human experience are either intent, negligent, or substandard. I think we can ALL agree that Jimmy Johnsen is not substandard, which only leaves two options...

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[1 RARE T]

What?

 

[Rivical]

What? Spit it out man!

 

[novaderrik]

i saw Sadler on one of those NASCAR shows on Speed today, and he said the crash was likely caused by the way the cars are set up to run on tracks like that. if you watch a shot of them going down a straight, they "dog track" pretty severely, this is done on purpose to help the cars bite thru the sharp corners better. each corner at Pocono covers a 120 degree sweep after a long straight- there is nothing else like that anywhere else. the closest comparison would be Indy, and those are only 90 degrees.
they don't set the cars up like that at many other big tracks- at Daytona and Talledega, the cars are set up to go perfectly straight to help lower the drag and help them go faster with the restrictor plate killing half of the horsepower. most other tracks don't have a very long straight, so they aren't going into the corners carrying that kind of speed, so they don't dog track it as much.
on the big tracks with restrictor plates, bump drafting on the straights doesn't cause any problems, since the car is going straight. but since the cars are going a little sideways at Pocono, it doesn't take much to upset the balance and send them spinning- especially when there is a car on the side taking away the side force that is holding the car straight.
on the shorter tracks, this won't happen like this because the speeds are so much lower and they aren't running as close to the ragged edge.
watch the camera angle that shows the cars coming striaght towards them when it happened- Kurt's car first turns down toward the inside, then goes up after he attempts to correct . Jimmy Johnson then swerves down to the left to avoid him. the car initially went left because the front of the car was pointed that way when the car was going 'straight'.

even if you don't like NASCAR or whatever, the physics involved in this thing are pretty damn cool..

one other thing- NASCAR is saying that this was the hardest hit ever recorded in a NASCAR race car. i wonder if or when they will release the data on how many G's were involved and how fast Elliot was going when he hit the wall.

 

[1 RARE T]

Very interesting indeed. I think it's what they call yaw (sp?). The rear-end is off set in the frame. Buddy did that in his dirt car and says it's like a whole new car in the turns.

Some of the things that happen on the track, fans are so quick to bash a driver. A few years ago, I got a new take on that.

I've raced off and on for years now. Mostly 3/8 mile dirt but some payment too. Even at modest speed, things happen so fast. Your reaction process is not always going to end up being perfect. I've been in wrecks and later thought why the hell did I do that? There's just no time to think it out.

I've also driven 30 laps around MIS at almost 145 mp/h. I thought it was pretty fast 'till the ride along @ 185. I don't know how thses guys go 500 miles with 40 sum other guys. You have no idea what the feeling of going down a straighaway headed to a corner at that speed.

One minor misjudgement and .

That being said, some stuff it intentional. Big difference. That was not the case here.