Need help

[ChristianKustom]

Hey guys. My name is John and I am new to this site. I have only had about 10 minutes of time on here so forgive me for not searching.

However I wanted to know if there is anyone in Westminster, MD that might be willing to swing by my shop and educate me on a few things about these cars. I run an automotive shop and know my way around a car but there are still areas I am un knowledgable about it. I am not a prideful man so I can admit I don't know it all.

Anyway what I wanted to know is if there is someone who could help me with a few vacuum issues I am having and what some of the components are. I have a good idea but I want to make sure. Also I wanted some info on tuning. Things like the cam sensor, TPS specs etc. I have not been able to find a whole lot so hopefully someone can help. I just bought a 1987 GN with a 3.8 turbo. It's in fair condition but runs rough. Idle is sparatic but seems slow. Full throttle has NO balls but a small gallop through the woods. I am looking for righteously kick ass (in the mighty words of Joe Dirt). So any help would be awesome. Thanks.

My phone number is 410-596-8985 is phone calls are easier. Thanks guys and thanks for the warm welcome to your awesome site.

John / ChristianKustomz

 

[rmar]

Turbo Regal Web Site


Vortex Turbo Buick Performance


These 2 will greatly help, quality late night reading..


Welcome and Good luck

 

[ChristianKustom]

Great. Thanks for that. quality late night for sure.

 

[ChristianKustom]

Hey Tim. I wanted to let you know I did not forget about you. I just put on new plugs (gapped @ .035) and new wires. I readjusted the TPS but still can only get .44 vlots at idle and 4.27 at WOT. WOT should be 4.79 +. The car still falls flat on it's face on start up and sometimes dies when trying to accel. from a dead stop but only after the first 2 minutes or so of start up.

Also I am also still having problems with the car on WOT. She does not want to move and occasionally it will buck when decelerating. I have tried everything I know of to get it to drive right but I am completely up against the wall. I have no clue what to do. The only other thing I could think of is the CAS but it starts up perfectly (after about 4-6 rotations of the crank).

Any idea's are welcome. I am willing to try anything at this point. I need this car to run strong. Thanks.

 

[mikestertwo]

I readjusted the TPS but still can only get .44 vlots at idle and 4.27 at WOT. WOT should be 4.79 +.
.

4.27 volts at WOT is plenty. You don't need more than that.

 

[87NAT]

John keep me updated on the progress.

Ed

 

[machinegun]

Do you have any idea what kind of chip is in the car?


This can make a huge difference in the way the car behaves.


If you want you can call me and I will try to help. It is a little hard over the phone or internet.

Are you using any kind of scan tool that records data that you can send us?

Have you possilby followed the spring cleaning at the gnttype.org?

 

[87NAT]

I talked to him yesterday. The car is bone stock. Chip, cat converter, etc...

He has a big crack in the drivers side exhaust. I think thats a big part of his spool up problem. Its going pig rich on the top end with no boost to compensate.

 

[GullsGN]

I talked to him yesterday. The car is bone stock. Chip, cat converter, etc...

He has a big crack in the drivers side exhaust. I think thats a big part of his spool up problem. Its going pig rich on the top end with no boost to compensate.

Hmmm, bone stock. A new chip, fix the crack, a K&N air filter, new fuel pump,hot wire and regulator and you feel a difference in the butt dyno for sure. A new turbo, injectors, and a down pipe will put a big grin on your puss.

 

[ChristianKustom]

Hi guys. Sorry for the long time between responses. I have been busy repairing customers vehicles and I was a bit behind.

Anyway in response to some questions (and sorry I have not done up my profile yet) my '87 GN is completely stock except for a customer welded aluminum intake pipe connected to a K & N. The whole exhaust is quite rusted and the cat has some pieces flopping around in it. You can hear it too.

Yes...I am learing that these cars are VERY touchy. The smallest thing will make them run harshly. These are a far different creature then these little imports I work on all day long. LOL.

The car has 18K miles on it bnut I am thinking it might be more cause I found some papers under the rear seat when I removed it. But the title and carfax shows it to be a one owner.

Ok back to whats been done. I have adjusted the TPS, Put new plugs (non platinum), new wires and all new vacuum hoses. Thanks for some of the help Tim. Much abliged. Stock headers and yes the driverside has a crack in it. It is a stock ecu and the transmission was rebuilt apparently. When it shifts into second gear it will chirp the tires...nice.

I was under the impression the car was building boost cause the electronic boost gauge was reading up to 12psi. I was told it is jusnk and to never trust it so I am getting some aftermarket gauges for the car and probably a wideband too. I still wish I could get the tach to read right too. Reads max all the time. :-( So really I guess I have no idea of what vacuum pressure I have and what boost it is climaxing at.

So what is with this hot wire everyone is talking about? My fuel pump has to be working properly if it is getting fuel to the engine right? Especially running pig rich. Info on this would be great. I like being educated so anything you guys could teach me about these cars I will take. Thanks.

So I will be fixing alot of things here shortly. Need to get some more cash first though. This thing still idles like crap on first start up though. After it is warmed up it goes away. I am thinking the ICV might be sticking. I will probably replace that when I get back from vacation next week. Let me know some idea's Thanks everyone.

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

I believe there are some MAGNA members from the Westminster MD area, you might want to drop a thread over here Mid Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) - TurboBuicks.com

Chuck

 

[bmackinnon]

I was under the impression the car was building boost cause the electronic boost gauge was reading up to 12psi. I was told it is jusnk and to never trust it so I am getting some aftermarket gauges for the car and probably a wideband too. I still wish I could get the tach to read right too. Reads max all the time. :-( So really I guess I have no idea of what vacuum pressure I have and what boost it is climaxing at.

So what is with this hot wire everyone is talking about? My fuel pump has to be working properly if it is getting fuel to the engine right? Especially running pig rich. Info on this would be great. I like being educated so anything you guys could teach me about these cars I will take. Thanks.

This thing still idles like crap on first start up though. After it is warmed up it goes away. .

Sheesh....where to start....

1) The factory tach and boost gage circuit board degrades over time and will need to be refurb'd to make them function properly. Board member John Spina (GNVenom) owns Caspers Electronics and can perform this service at a very reasonable cost... here's his tech article detailing the problem and fix:

http://www.installationinstructions.com/FYI/tachboost.pdf

2) Even with a weak fuel pump, the car can idle pig rich, and run deadly lean WOT. The factory fuel pump on our cars was BARELY adequate when the cars left the showroom, and after 23 years is bound to be weak and close to failure. This is almost certainly the reason your car is falling on it's face WOT. As the pump weakens, it can no longer supply the flow/pressure required when the car is under boost. These cars use a fp regulator that is referenced to boost pressure. The fp MUST rise in a 1:1 ratio with boost. If not, the car will go lean, start to detonate severely, and blow the head gaskets... or worse! The ecm will pull timing when it senses the detonation (called knock retard or KR, causing the car to drastically lose power), but will be unable to compensate enough to save itself. Owning a shop, you surely have access to fp gage. You need to hook it to the front of the fuel rail, via an extension hose that will allow you to temporarily tape the gage to the windshield so you can see it while driving. I BET MY ARSE that what you will see as you start pouring on the throttle, will be the fp start to rise, and then as the boost builds the fp will begin to fall off a cliff... this will prove that the fuel pump is dead/dying. This is the VERY FIRST THING you should do before running the car hard again... I can't stress this enough!!! If you continue to run the car hard 'with no balls but a small gallop' , it WILL blow up.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY runs the stock chip/fp reg. anymore, and I can't remember exactly what the 'base' (vac hose removed from the regulator) fuel press. should be, but for this discussion, let's assume it's 30 psi. SO.... fuel pressure for any given boost pressure MUST be 'base' + boost = fp. So at 12 psi boost, fp = 30 + 12 = 42 psi. This number will obviously vary depending on what the base and boost pressures are. THIS MUST BE VERIFIED TO BE OCCURING IMMEDIATELY!!! I'm clear, rite??

The 'hotwire' is an upgrade we ALL do, when replacing the fuel pump, and is simply a large gage power feed wire to the (upgraded) fuel pump, supplied straight off the back of the alternator, via an extra relay... as the factory harness to the pump is pretty wimpy.... this ensures max voltage to the pump for max performance/reliability.... The plug and play hotwire kit can be purchased for like $30 and is also a 'must-do'...

3) The stock chip is an amazingly crappy calibration and they always ran like garbage when cold.... even brand spankin' new.... stalling a couple times at cold startup, hesitation, etc. Chip technology has progressed an unbelievable amt. since these cars were new. An overwhelming majority of people now run a TurboTweak chip.... it's about $85 and you will be amazed at the difference in the way the car runs.

TurboTweak Home

In summary... do the fuel pressure test, and perhaps you can hook up a real boost gage as well to aid that test, and then report back. These cars are very finicky, but very satisfying when you get them figured out.... just takes time and ALOT of reading...

on gnttype.org, make sure you go thru all the tech in the pulldown' list:
Turbo Buick Technical Articles and Resources (Technical Archives)

and here's another great FAQ that will give you some insight into the electronics/sensors and how they relate to the tuning of these cars: FAQ-Buick Turbo Regal Chips - Thrasher Engineered Performance

Definitely required reading...:wink: Hope this helps some, and this is only the beginning!! :biggrin: Welcome to the Darkside!!

 

[ChristianKustom]

Hey. Thanks so much for the info. I am at ocean city on vacation so when I get back I will tend to the issues you told me about.
I will let you know how it goes.

By the way...I am a child of light. But the darkside of the GN feels sooooo good. I am confused again. Lol. I like iit

 

[87GN_ponykillr]

Small world!

Hi John, My name is Adam and I live in Westminster and own several turbo Buicks. Where are you located in town?

 

[ChristianKustom]

Hey Adam. It's John. How you been again? Man you seem to be following me everywhere I go. LOL. I am glad to hear you are doing well though. But yeah definately stop by the shop any time. It would be good to hang out with you again. By the way...I met 2 of your friends today while I was in the UNI doctors office today. I can't remember their names but had to laugh cause the one girl burned the hell out of herself when she tried to light a bon-fire. She became the object of flames. DUH! but we were talking and she one girl said she was at college with you. then the other girl said ADAM?....I was talking with him earlier today before I set myself on fire. Wow. The one chick had a hot tatoo on her left arm. Black hair and kind of punkish looking :-P and the other well lets just say looked like a burnt french fry. Anyway I will see you tuesday. Later.

 

[87GN_ponykillr]

Haha! Thats funny John! Small world! Yeah it was good catching up, Ill fill you in more later.... Ill swing by Wednesday morning at your shop.