need some major help!!!!

[1984grandnat]

Here's the setup:
stock longblock (lotsa miles)
stock tranny/D5 convertor (lotsa miles)
BIG turbo (P-trim turbine in Precision A/R .63 housing w/
65 lb/min compressor from John Craig @ Limit Engineering)
Stock exhaust elbow, up-pipe, and downpipe
ATR headers and crossover
Bored throttle body to 62mm by Jay Jackson
Kenne Bell ram air kit
Hooker dual exhaust w/no cat.
87 ECM and coil pack conversion w/electric fan
Walbro fuel pump w/hotwire kit
Kenne Bell 50-lb injectors
Blocked TB coolant lines w/160 deg stat
Adj fuel press reg
Aftermarket boost and knock gauges
DIY alcohol injection kit, which allows higher boost levels

The problem:
Turbo won't spool (okay, prolly need a convertor)
MAXIMUM boost is only 18 psi (with wastegate unhooked and flapper wired shut) -NO exhaust leaks!-
fuel press set at 40 psi, but plugs don't look rich
Boost is VERY LAZY!!!! takes half the track to get to 15 psi, and once there, hovers between 15 and 18, never going higher
No matter where I set FP, or what chips I try, I still wind up with the same timeslip:

15.6 @ 90 mph
I ran the car 4 times today, and this is all I can squeeze!!!!!!
What the h*ll could be going on here guys???????
Any opinions or advice would be great!!!!!!

The tranny is in question (maybe slipping a little), as well as the electrical system (can't get much good data from laptops). Still doesn't explain why boost won't climb higher than 18 psi. Also doesn't explain why the car hits a brick wall at 90 mph (should be much higher, even in stock form).

Thanks for ANY input!!!!!!!!!!

 

[1984grandnat]

oh yeah...

Just remembered that the crank sensor is also in question...
The balancer had loosened up and the keyway in the balancer has been "banged out" a little, making the balancer spin back and forth on the end of the crank. To temporarily alleviate the problem, I simply added another large washer to the crank bolt, and tightened it so that it would hold the balancer still (until I get a new balancer). If the crank sensor is off slightly, could this affect the timing enough to cause performance problems? Just wondering, the timing/cam/crank sensor thing is one of the most misunderdstood areas of our vehicles.

 

[1984grandnat]

oh yeah (again)

Let's just say for example, that I have a bad FP regulator. Does it seem logical that this could cause a problem similar to this? Such as, making drastic changes to fuel and timing, but no changes seen in performance? I know the reg is working on the vac side (FP goes up by about 4 psi when I remove the vac hose), but I don't know if it increases under BOOST. This would explain why my plugs don't look rich. This may also explain the limited boost, since the engine is running out of fuel, right? Normally, an engine would knock when run lean, but the alcohol may be masking that? Don't know, just guessing at this point. I think I will spend some money on a hood-mounted FP gauge next. What do you guys think?

...Somebody HAS to have some input on this.

 

[Lee Thompson]

No boost

When you say you have the wastegate wired shut. Are you sure it is not coming open under exhaust pressure.

Rig up a hood gage to check fuel pressure.
With all the GOOD STUFF you have on your car, you have gotten the cart before the horse (so to speak). Hood mounted gage, some way to read data, solid trans, get rid of the factory up and down pipe, you get the picture.

IMO, what you have is horses pulling in all different dirrections. Once you get them all pulling forward, you will be pleased. Good Luck

 

[1984grandnat]

I wired the WG shut to try to avoid the valve opening from exhaust pressure. If I still have the stock elbow and DP, the pressure would actually be HIGHER than normal, huh? I think the FP gauge is NEXT. I really want to see what is going on with FP at WOT. I also have a laptop coming (be here tomorrow), and just got some scan software, so I SHOULD be able to see a little more of what is going on later this week. I would think that once I get all the bugs worked out, this car should see a high- to mid- 12 second time (?) Just getting tired of being beaten by FWD cars and old trucks at the strip!!!!

Thanks for the input, Lee. Will keep you posted.

 

[Buick From Hell]

Just my opinion, but rather than wire the wastegate shut, why not just let the wastegate rod hold it shut, and just remove and plug the vacuum/pressure line so it won't actuate? The wastegate spring pressure should hold the puck closed much tighter that wiring it will (I would think?)

The boost problem sounds simply like the puck isn't fully closed, for whatever reason (could be out of alignment to the hole, etc.)

 

[1984grandnat]

Okay, this is how I have it:

The wategate pressure line (hose) is disconnected from the actuator and capped (to keep vacuum from leaking while not under boost). Actuator adjustment is pretty tight, but boost was still only about 16 psi MAX. There are no exhaust leaks. We thought maybe the exhaust pressure was pushing the puck off of the housing, so we wired the valve tightly shut. Still, boost will not climb past 18 psi, and fluctuates between 15 and 18 for the entire run, peaking at 18, falling to 15 right after the shifts (when RPMs are down). The only thing left to do is to physically remove the elbow and check the position of the puck, maybe it's not covering the hole completely. After all, this IS a larger housing with a bored WG hole. ...and I am using the stock elbow and stock WG puck. If the stock puck is not large enough, is there an aftermarket one available? You know, if I only had a GOOD 3" downpipe with the WG puck built into it, I could avoid all this. Oh well!

 

[GNandGS]

Naturally

since I was there Im gonna add my .02...

For boost, assuming the puck is aligned (didnt I mention checking this at the Radio shop? heh) we wanted to make sure there wasnt enough exhaust gas to push it open or "squeak" past. Desperate move? Maybe, but wiring it shut will hold a LOT better than the WG actuator. This added about 2-4psi but Im not sure as I wasnt in the car. However, this really points to WG doesnt it!?

Im fairly confident the issue is going to be turbo related. Either internally or WG sealing. The only exception might be fueling as Ive seen lean conditions limit boost - but I dont think this is the case now. I am not concerned with ET so far as if Im right, whatever issue is with the turbo/WG will likely fix the spoolup as well.

To continue with fueling...
When at the track some things get tried. After putting in a fresh set of plugs, making a run and pulling them, we could tell the car could use some fuel - it was lean. This was done in the chip where I added a buttload at 4000+rpm via the PE RPM table.

As for data, we did have some street time to get "in the ballpark" but we were tuning to 14ish psi AND alky. Alky seems to be the bain of my chip tuning experience as it always alters the numbers and everone "need" to run it at low boost levels... anyway...

IF the FP reg has issues it could contribute to the problem. We (Ok HE) needs more info in order to do the next steps and Lee is dead on about the carts. FP guage has been on the list Im sure but somebody didnt want to miss opening track day I'll bet.

The FP reg was a new unit about a year ago or so and while it SHOULD be verified Im stickin to my WG/Turbo theory... and yes the puck can be modified.

Shawn

 

[Lee Thompson]

WG puck

A few days back, someone in the parts for sale section, had larger pucks for sale. I think a Mike Smith, not sure. Anyway, I am pretty sure I have 1 in my old tool box, (1.300 in.). I would prefer to hang on to it but if you find that is your problem and can/t find one I will part with it. Good Luck

These are pretty simple to change, die grinder to remove the old one and someone to spot weld the new one on. BTW, they must be FREE to swing and rotate.

 

[1984grandnat]

Well, I blew the passenger side header gasket today while testing my fuel pressure theory, SO I will be pulling the header off in the next coupla days. The up pipe will need to come off as well, and I will pull the elbow to take a peek at the puck. It may be that the edge of the WG hole is radiused just enough to allow a little pressure by...we'll see. If that is the case, a larger puck will definitely be in order.