Need some new stock ported iron heads
- Thread starter TRBON8R
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turbowrenchhead
Drive like you stole it!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 854
Originally posted by Ed Valvo
A few buddies of mine had to have them redone to get them to seal! Runout was pretty bad. The ports looked nice though.
Do you mean that the head needed resurfacing because it wasn't flat?
turbowrenchhead
Drive like you stole it!
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 854
Call me stupid but I just don't understand exactly what the runout is. The vavle seat out of round?
Most likely its the valve guide is oversize, allowing the valve to move side to side (they are only supposed to move up and down
). I would think Champion put in new valve guides for your $1200, so I wouldn't think that would be a problem, but that's just me thinking again.I stopped by Rons a few months ago and spoke to Jack Merkil who is the engine builder. He has a flow bench, he to claims that he can get more CFM through a good set of ported iron heads. I did not see the numbers however this is what he claims. 
OneLethal87GN
R.I.P. Lethal GN
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 1,255
Maybe I missed it, but did anyone comment on the quality of the ESP heads or intakes?
A friend has a set of cnc esp heads. A local shop with a very good head porter flowed a different set and said that they were better than the iron Champions that they had tested, and about what their guy could do. Unfortunately they unshrouded the intake valves so much that you need a felpro 1026 gasket for a 4.1L motor to seal around the chambers now. My friend moved on to GN1's so they are for sale if anyone is interested .
.Turbowrenchhead, UNGN got it... crappy guides.
BTW, I have noticed there is a lot of discussion about CFM, but that is not the only issue on a “street” driven car. Ever run a hog out set of high CFM flowing heads on the street at low RPMs? Velocity is gone and drivability sucks. So don’t get stuck just on “who’s can flow the most” @ “X” lift, there needs to be a balance, between CMF & velocity, & between intake and exhaust CFM ratios. The better “porters” are well aware of that, at least I would think (hope?) so.
Lots of places can get you 200(+) cfm, but there are right ways and wrong ways to achieve that. If you go to someone who is not experienced with a particular type of head, or is not experienced with the type of application it is intended for (and you have to be very honest with your intentions), chances are it will not be to your satisfaction. As an example, and at the moment it looks like a fine one, check out the job that Frank from Garbacz Motorworks did for Intercooler at the thread:
Flow numbers are in on worked heads! Pretty pumped There are others, and are worth searching out.
BTW, I have noticed there is a lot of discussion about CFM, but that is not the only issue on a “street” driven car. Ever run a hog out set of high CFM flowing heads on the street at low RPMs? Velocity is gone and drivability sucks. So don’t get stuck just on “who’s can flow the most” @ “X” lift, there needs to be a balance, between CMF & velocity, & between intake and exhaust CFM ratios. The better “porters” are well aware of that, at least I would think (hope?) so.
Lots of places can get you 200(+) cfm, but there are right ways and wrong ways to achieve that. If you go to someone who is not experienced with a particular type of head, or is not experienced with the type of application it is intended for (and you have to be very honest with your intentions), chances are it will not be to your satisfaction. As an example, and at the moment it looks like a fine one, check out the job that Frank from Garbacz Motorworks did for Intercooler at the thread:
Flow numbers are in on worked heads! Pretty pumped There are others, and are worth searching out.
I believe I said virtually the same thing, much earlier on in this or a similar discussion. Max flow is not worth squat, unless it is "area under the curve". So many people think that "bigger is always better", and that's so far from true! As mentioned before, and per what Dean has pointed out; where do you want to make the power? A big number based on a huge cam or at an RPM range that the motor will rarely see is pointless! My whole reason for giving praise to Tom and the guys at Champion was that they had done the homework to figure out where a stock iron head flows best and at a steady line on the curve, as opposed to just making a nice sounding big peak number. My Champions are beautifully worked, and will flow 200-205 on the intake side, without giving up driveability and low end power. I'm not slamming any of you guys who are posting higher numbers, because I'm sure they run well. However, my original point was merely that for the money spent, w/o core exchange, most of the time you will not find a better deal for overall head performance. If I had a way of posting the pictures of my irons, I would. If anyone would like pics or offer to let me post em' on your sight, I'll do it. High flow at 6000 RPM is futile if the majority of your 1/4 mile runtime is spent at 3200-5800 rpm.
In summary, and a proven theory; "It's all about operation and flow in the "sweet spot" which is area under the curve." Thanks for everyone's input.
In summary, and a proven theory; "It's all about operation and flow in the "sweet spot" which is area under the curve." Thanks for everyone's input.
