New Drop In E85 Compatible Fuel Pump, DW300, January 2011

[Flyin Brian]

I put my Deatschwerks fuel pump in Friday.
It seems to flow more than the Walbro 307 I took out.
E85, stock fuel lines, 60 lb injectors, healthy motor, 110% DC at 15 lb boost and 6000 rpm. I really need 80 lb injectors bad!

 

[DeatschWerks]

Do you know what happened after the data point you highlighted?

Looks like the fuel pressure came back up and your IDCs dropped back down again.

Boost looks consistant, though.

 

[BEATAV8]

Do you know what happened after the data point you highlighted?

Looks like the fuel pressure came back up and your IDCs dropped back down again.

Boost looks consistant, though.

Shifted from 2nd to 3rd.

Control system is open loop at WOT. No closed loop on this car. Injector duty runs where I set it.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

BeataV8, what is the fuel pressure at the point after the shift?
Looks like 70psi but hard to tell due to the dashed line which looks like 75psi.

Curious where the FP is being read from?
Is this the stock rail with a modified inlet fitting etc?

Looks to me like as the rpms get higher, the pressure/volume can't feed the injectors and Momma Cow is running out of milk for the babies. Shift hits, rpms drop, Momma's recovering for the time being till it starts all over again as each injector needs more fuel to feed the higher rpms.

 

[BEATAV8]

BeataV8, what is the fuel pressure at the point after the shift?
Looks like 70psi but hard to tell due to the dashed line which looks like 75psi.

Curious where the FP is being read from?
Is this the stock rail with a modified inlet fitting etc?

Looks to me like as the rpms get higher, the pressure/volume can't feed the injectors and Momma Cow is running out of milk for the babies. Shift hits, rpms drop, Momma's recovering for the time being till it starts all over again as each injector needs more fuel to feed the higher rpms.

Fuel pressure recovers to 69-70psi when the duty drops. It's running a stock fuel rail, stock lines too. Pressure transducer is mounted on the diagnostic port (driver's side in front of the regulator)

Your analysis is spot on accurate. Running out of milk!

I've since reduced the injector duty across the board (car was running very rich at 81% duty). With ~70-72% duty it seems the setup can provide solid steady fuel pressure at 69-70 psi.

Haven't messed with a volt booster yet, but I probably would need to if I want to run 30psi and achieve 75psi fuel pressure.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

If you haven't chopped off the inlet fitting on the stock rail to kill that restriction it's just making it harder for the pump to supply the appropriate volume. Reducing system backpressure via fuel lines, rails etc makes things safer too. If a TA49 with 80's can cause this issue with E85 than what would a 62/62 do if you slapped that on, ouch. Your datalog proves what I've been saying since day one, lines and rails matter, it's not just the pump as the bigger Injectors make this issue worse. Bigger mouths sucking out of the same smallish rail isn't ideal.

Wish I had a set of rails to send you to test for me, not ready yet.

 

[TurboBob]

if there were an easy way to eliminate the saginaw fittings, that would make a huge difference.

supply side there are 4, 2 at the filter, 1 at the frame under the engine, and 1 at the rail.

return side there are 2, one at the regulator and one at the frame under the engine.

Bob

 

[BEATAV8]

if there were an easy way to eliminate the saginaw fittings, that would make a huge difference.

supply side there are 4, 2 at the filter, 1 at the frame under the engine, and 1 at the rail.

return side there are 2, one at the regulator and one at the frame under the engine.

Bob

I saw some pics in another thread on here using compression fittings and AN adapters to do the job. Looked good!

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Check out the size of the hole at the inlet fitting, I don't care if you stick a -10an fuel line to the stock rail, that inlet sucks and is clearly dangerous with E85 and larger Turbos/Injectors.

I wouldn't buy anything until you figure out if you're going to
1) Chop off inlet on stock rail and weld on -8 (maybe Turbofabricator will help you out or a board member that's done it and has welding skillz)
2) Get Champion Rail anodized and buy -8 to -6 inlet fitting to use with the stock line.

From here you should be able to drop IDC even more and can then worry about the stock lines as you run more psi and need more volume to the rail.

 

[BEATAV8]

I wouldn't buy anything until you figure out if you're going to
1) Chop off inlet on stock rail and weld on -8 (maybe Turbofabricator will help you out or a board member that's done it and has welding skillz)
2) Get Champion Rail anodized and buy -8 to -6 inlet fitting to use with the stock line.

From here you should be able to drop IDC even more and can then worry about the stock lines as you run more psi and need more volume to the rail.

LOL.. funny you should mention that....

This one will run modified stock lines and 120's with a double pumper
Rails are annodized now too

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I thought Champion had rails for stock intakes and bigger ones for the Stage guys. Regardless, the ones for use are actually SMALLER ID than the stock rail which means if you chop off the inlet fitting the stocker will flow more, .590 vs .620 I believe is the ID of each.

I'd definitely like to see your IDC's at the same AF/R after you do whatever rail mod you're planning.

 

[DeatschWerks]

I must say, that is a beautiful engine!

 

[BEATAV8]

Some more fuel pressure data...

With inj duty cycles below 70% the fuel system is able to do the job nicely. I even turned the boost up just a bit. You can see ~27psi boost and 72psi fuel pressure in 3rd gear here with 65% inj duty, and the fuel pressure is nice and flat like a table top.

 

[ungrave]

80lb injectors at 70% duty cycle is equivalent to 56lbs per hour.
So sounds like going beyond 60lb injectors with a single DW300 pump and the stock lines is pointless. That's not what I was hoping to hear.
BEATAV8, thanks for all the good feedback though!

 

[DeatschWerks]

One pump should be able to feed 72lb injectors with modest boost pressure (total system pressure around 62-65psi). Six 72lb injectors would be asking for around 270LPH @ 100% IDC.

 

[ungrave]

62-65psi would be the low end for fuel pressure on a modified turbo buick. And that would be measured at the rail. Who knows what it would be at the pump.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

BEATAV8, you still keeping the inlet rail fitting the same though?

I'll PM you.

 

[Racetronix]

option:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ad...siemens-hp-fuel-pumps-300lph.html#post2818982

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Warranty with E85?

 

[HighMileage]

Isolator Question.

I have found the time to install my new DW301.

Does the isolator have to be used? ...or are you guys running w/o it?

Thanks!