New Drop In E85 Compatible Fuel Pump, DW300, January 2011

[TurboBob]

Put the DeatschWerks pump in the blue Regal with upgrade to 120 lb injectors. The pressure settled in about 43 psi. Had to jack up the regulator pressure higher than that then back off to keep the pressure from going down when the engine load went high enough to use fuel and reduce the back pressure on the return line.

I would like to reduce the pressure further, so will be replacing most of the 1/4 inch return line this coming week. My goal is to provide enough fuel for about 515 flywheel HP, with less than 60% duty cycle on the injectors.

I have been doing all my comparisons at 70 psi, as 45 psi rail pressure is a common setting (on the high side) and 25 psi is where most of the hot street cars are running (especially on e85)

So, to feed 80's the pump needs to produce ~80 Gal/Hr. (assuming I'm running the injectors close to static)

(check my math please)

Bob

 

[RobS]

I got 77.4 gal/hr assuming 6.2 pounds per gallon

 

[TurboBob]

I think thats pretty close to my guestimate.....

Bob

 

[RobS]

If 75 psi is equal to 240 lph (see chart). 240lph X 1.62 conversion to lbs per hour. 388lbs per hour at 75psi. 6 X 80lbs per hour = 480 lbs per hour. Short 92 lbs per hour. Are you near 100% duty cycle at 25 psi of boost Bob?

 

[TurboBob]

...... Short 92 lbs per hour.

I was afraid of that.... thats what my math shows also.

Bob

 

[TurboBob]

Are you near 100% duty cycle at 25 psi of boost Bob?

On E85 I get up there. I have a single walbro and the pump pressure starts to fall off as I approach 25 psi. I borrowed a volt booster and that will get me to 25 psi ok.

I haven't checked the injector dutycycle, as I was logging all my testing using the ISAC. (working on some fine-tuning of the boost control algorithm)

So I need a bigger pump, or more voltage...

What I need to do is get my fuel pressure transducer installed and go burn up some more "corn" to test all this with the PowerLogger.

Bob

 

[RobS]

What I need to do is get my fuel pressure transducer installed and go burn up some more "corn" to test all this with the PowerLogger.

I need to call Full Throttle tomorrow and order my chip. I already have the 80's (not installed).

So I need a bigger pump, or more voltage...

I was going to wait for walbro's new pump. If I have too much pressure at idle I think I will try to use the stock wiring to the fuel pump to see if it will lower the idle pressure.

 

[TurboBob]

I am waiting on Walbro's new pump also.

Bob

 

[Turbo Loyd]

That is exactly why I would like to lower the static pressure and tune for say 35 psi across the injectors since the pump will not produce the higher volume at 13.5 volts.

I am currently over-sized on injector capacity for my immediate HP goals

 

[Turbo Loyd]

Hey Loyd, E85 GN?
Curious on why 60% IDC, are you planning on swapping to a monster turbo etc?

The last time I dynoed the car it made 446 rear wheel HP, on a lean E-85 set up at 21 psi boost. I'm thinking the DeatschWerks pump will only supply 60% duty cycle through the 120 #/hr injectors at 13.5 volts, through the stock 3/8 inch fuel lines. I'm adding a second stock filter in parallel to the existing one to reduce that friction loss a little.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Not sure if you saw one of first Dyno posts a tuner had with the DW Loyd, but it made 625awhp on E85 around 12:1 AF/R, calculate in a conservative 18% drivetrain loss and this pumps feeding some serious engine HP.

And haven't seen anyone talk about AF/R too and what's the realistic HP the GN's going to make at said fuel pump pressure (ex. 70psi).

Not sure I'd be worried considering non of us talking about the pump are near 600rwhp regardless of AF/R with our typical 13.5 volts.

 

[87GN_70GS]

Originally Posted by RobS
...... Short 92 lbs per hour.

I was afraid of that.... thats what my math shows also.

Bob

Yes, looks like it'll do 80's up to about 85% duty cycle. According to the chart it looks like at 70 psi, it can supply roughly 68 gph. That's just under what 70#'s (with 25 psi boost) will do at 100% dc. Actually if there were 68# inj, at 100% dc they would demand very close to 68 gph at 70 psi. So 68/80 = .85 (85%)

See above. 85% IDC is about all you can hope for

 

[87GN_70GS]

The last time I dynoed the car it made 446 rear wheel HP, on a lean E-85 set up at 21 psi boost. I'm thinking the DeatschWerks pump will only supply 60% duty cycle through the 120 #/hr injectors at 13.5 volts, through the stock 3/8 inch fuel lines. I'm adding a second stock filter in parallel to the existing one to reduce that friction loss a little.

If you plot your injector curves on the same plot as the pump curve, you will be able find the most fuel flow/pressure each combination will support.

For example, just playing around with some numbers: Assuming 25 psi boost in all cases. The pump can flow enough to support 120# injectors at 100% IDC, but at only 45 psi total. That's 20 psi base fuel pressure. Total fuel flow at that point will be 81 gph or 960 hp on gasoline.

At 85% IDC on 120#'s, you can only get away with about 51 psi, or 26 psi base fuel. Total fuel flow is 76 gph.

At 60% IDC, the maximum suportable fuel pressure will be about 64 psi (39 psi base) with about 70 gph max fuel flow.

HTH

 

[BEATAV8]

Deatschwerks fuel pump
80lb injectors
E85
stock fuel lines
caspers hot wire, and upgraded pump hanger wiring
13.2 batt volts shown on PLC.

62.8 PSI @ 81%. :frown:
Not as good as might be hoped for, but reasonable if you go by the charts.

Flow is about 242LPH by my estimate, probably quite a bit less than that actually.

stepping up the voltage with a volt booster next....

 

[KevinB]

Was that log at a track or dyno? What's your setup?

Anyone run these in a double pumper setup yet?

 

[49-blues]

Beatav8-what's your boost set at?

 

[BEATAV8]

Was that log at a track or dyno? What's your setup?

Anyone run these in a double pumper setup yet?

Just testing on the street.. it's a stock motor with a TA49 turbo, 80's, and a DP and exhaust. Not a high power combo.

 

[BEATAV8]

Beatav8-what's your boost set at?

About 25. It's on the screen in that shot.

 

[KevinB]

Just testing on the street.. it's a stock motor with a TA49 turbo, 80's, and a DP and exhaust. Not a high power combo.

Any idea what your volts are? Looks like you have a possible fuel pressure issue depending in your base pressure and how accurate the sensor is. At 25 psi you are at 62 psi fuel pressure. If your base is 43, you should be at 68. That would cause the jump in duty cycle.
I'm now a firm believer in the red Armstrong volt booster. I used tobuse the caspers one and it never worked right. With the reds my voltage is 13.5-14 going down the track. We saw the graph for this pump at 13.5 volts. It be interesting to see it at 12 volts. I bet it doesn't flow much better than a walbro at 12.
My car is running 127 MPH with stock lines and double 255's with a 90% duty cycle on e85. So we can count out your high DC on the lines. Like I said, the low fuel pressure and volts would be the first place I'd look.

 

[BEATAV8]

Any idea what your volts are? Looks like you have a possible fuel pressure issue depending in your base pressure and how accurate the sensor is. At 25 psi you are at 62 psi fuel pressure. If your base is 43, you should be at 68. That would cause the jump in duty cycle.
I'm now a firm believer in the red Armstrong volt booster. I used tobuse the caspers one and it never worked right. With the reds my voltage is 13.5-14 going down the track. We saw the graph for this pump at 13.5 volts. It be interesting to see it at 12 volts. I bet it doesn't flow much better than a walbro at 12.
My car is running 127 MPH with stock lines and double 255's with a 90% duty cycle on e85. So we can count out your high DC on the lines. Like I said, the low fuel pressure and volts would be the first place I'd look.

Volts are 13.2 (in post above)

I think that the data I grabbed is representative of what this pump can do in a Buick with ~13 volts, good wiring, and good stock fuel lines.
My base FP is 45, and 25psi of boost. So fuel pressure should ideally be 70, nice and flat like a table top. My data shows the fuel pressure decreasing from 70 down to 62-63 as the duty cycle climbs. The cursor in the pic is sitting right at the top of 2nd gear, about 5100RPM. When it shifts into 3rd, the duty cycle drops with RPM and fuel pressure recovers momentarily.

Some folks were questioning whether or not the pump could fully support 80lb injectors. I don't think so, not without a volt booster anyways. With ~13 volts, it can fully support ~60lb injectors.

60 X 6 = 360lb/hr = 220L/Hr, which seems pretty reasonable if you look at the flow data posted earlier and take into consideration that there's some considerable pressure drop through the fuel system. (who knows how much?)

I'll be installing a volt booster in the car soon, possibly later today. Will post more data after that.