New timing cover

[Nasty Wendy]

Exactly and I agree with that.. But I asked for someone to show me how to do this the right way. If someone properly tells me how to do so..and I follow through and properly install and prime it..then I should be fine. That's wht you guys are on this thread for, to help me out right? I understand that I can't f#%* alot of things up on this motor from something so small and simple. That's why I'm asking for advice from the guys that have been down this road before.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Here is how to do it yourself. http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html
If you are good with this type of stuff then dive in. If you are not then spend the money and get one already done. If you do this incorrectly you WILL spin a bearing and break your camshaft into pieces with the rod that gets thrown through the side of your block. All will not be lost as you will be able to reuse the heads, intake, headers, and if you are 'lucky' the oil pan. And if you are really hard at learning you will be able to reuse that same front cover on your next engine too as they do survive the carnage they cause.

 

[DannyJov]

Here is how to do it yourself. http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html
If you are good with this type of stuff then dive in. If you are not then spend the money and get one already done. If you do this incorrectly you WILL spin a bearing and break your camshaft into pieces with the rod that gets thrown through the side of your block. All will not be lost as you will be able to reuse the heads, intake, headers, and if you are 'lucky' the oil pan. And if you are really hard at learning you will be able to reuse that same front cover on your next engine too as they do survive the carnage they cause.

lol thanks for the re-assurance... i dont consider myself that challenged of learning haha but thank you for the video!

 

[earlbrown]

You guys forgot the turbo. They usually get gathered up with the rest of the engine during a catastrophic failure.

 

[TTA308]

^^^^^^
Catastrophic, damn you can spell too !!!....

 

[SloGN]

Danny

That cover will work just fine. I have installed a few of those covers on several engines over the yrs. My current engine has that exact cover on it and has been running fine.
the only thing to note is that its a used cover. so it might be wise to open it up and make sure there has not been any debris in the pump. do you know any history of the engine that it came from?





If those covers are so bad why is it that some of the big engine builders use them? Ta performance, DLS performance.


Earl

What oil pump mods do you do that are YOUR mods?

Would it happen to be the same oil pump mods that metioned from the oil buick power source manual from way back in the day?

 

[earlbrown]

Oh lord no. The powersource mods are nothing more than smoothing some sharp 90's. I do all that and then some. I also completely re route the incoming oil on the low pressure side so the pump gets to work at 100% efficiency before the pressure relief opens. That's why mine have such a high ramp up speed with how fast the pressure gauge jumps. You don't have to wait until the bypass spring opens to get both sides of the gears wet. That mod is mine all mine.

The main thing I concentrate on is making it easier on the oil itself while it's going through the pump and doing it with as little parasitic drag as possible. No reason to beat the crap out of the front cam bearing, timing chain and bevel gears if you don't have to.

I can't speak for other people. I'm sure TA uses a TA cover because they sell them. I've never met Dan at DLS but if he runs a china unit I would guess it's because he doesn't have a stash of GM parts. Any idea what they used when GM parts were still available?

The difference is that I start with parts that flat out work and make them better. People building the china covers take sub standard parts and make them adequate. Then again as long as you have adequate, I guess you're OK.

 

[gn_steve]

I would be interested in one of your covers earl! Where can i get one and how much???


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[scot w.]

I also have used the Silver-seal front covers without a single problem, One just recently (9/13/13) on a engine I rebuilt for Donnie Brooks' 1 of 5 GM methanol test cars. His oil pressure happens to be 25lbs at temp in gear at a stop light and 60-70lbs at a 65mph cruise with 10w-40 oil and a bottle of ZDDP! Donnie's oil pressure and mine both ramp up identical to the rpm level, which is more than needed!
(1slogn) your right, DLS & TA Performance must know something about these covers in order for them to run & recommend them on their engine builds otherwise they wouldn't warranty them right?

Thanks Patrick for setting up the tolerances!

(DannyJov) PM sent....

.

 

[earlbrown]

I would be interested in one of your covers earl! Where can i get one and how much???

No reason to take the any further off topic that it already has been. The OP has some legitimate concerns to deal with. I sent you a PM.

 

[SloGN]

Oh lord no. The powersource mods are nothing more than smoothing some sharp 90's. I do all that and then some. I also completely re route the incoming oil on the low pressure side so the pump gets to work at 100% efficiency before the pressure relief opens. That's why mine have such a high ramp up speed with how fast the pressure gauge jumps. You don't have to wait until the bypass spring opens to get both sides of the gears wet. That mod is mine all mine.

The main thing I concentrate on is making it easier on the oil itself while it's going through the pump and doing it with as little parasitic drag as possible. No reason to beat the crap out of the front cam bearing, timing chain and bevel gears if you don't have to.

I can't speak for other people. I'm sure TA uses a TA cover because they sell them. I've never met Dan at DLS but if he runs a china unit I would guess it's because he doesn't have a stash of GM parts. Any idea what they used when GM parts were still available?

The difference is that I start with parts that flat out work and make them better. People building the china covers take sub standard parts and make them adequate. Then again as long as you have adequate, I guess you're OK.

I'm sure that Dan used gm covers when they were available. But since they are not so easy to come by these days he is using what can be sourced. The engine builders can either use a wore out stock one or use the aftermarket ones. ( the sole reason the aftermarket ones are here is cause GM don;t produce them anymore and there is a need for them)

So that leads me into this question...... Since your running a business of selling and modding timing cover/oil pump units. When your stash of GM covers run out what are you going to do? Will you simply close up shop and go out of business or will you choose to use the aftermarket covers? Or will you start requiring a core charge and try to rebuild the old and wore out stockers ?

 

[Steve V]

Have u guys forgot the TA cast a new cover made in the USA. So quality aftermarket is already here. I've used silver seal with no issues. But I always go with a gm cover or ta. Oh yeah I use the steel thrust plate and a TA shim kit and have no leaks or issues. Take your time check everything and it will be good no secret voodo needed.

To those who are not mechanically inclined. There are options too.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[charlief1]

Have u guys forgot the TA cast a new cover made in the USA. So quality aftermarket is already here. I've used silver seal with no issues. But I always go with a gm cover or ta. Oh yeah I use the steel thrust plate and a TA shim kit and have no leaks or issues. Take your time check everything and it will be good no secret voodo needed.

To those who are not mechanically inclined. There are options too.

Nope. TA gets them from China and finishes the machining here.

 

[earlbrown]

I'm sure that Dan used gm covers when they were available. But since they are not so easy to come by these days he is using what can be sourced. The engine builders can either use a wore out stock one or use the aftermarket ones. ( the sole reason the aftermarket ones are here is cause GM don;t produce them anymore and there is a need for them)

So that leads me into this question...... Since your running a business of selling and modding timing cover/oil pump units. When your stash of GM covers run out what are you going to do? Will you simply close up shop and go out of business or will you choose to use the aftermarket covers? Or will you start requiring a core charge and try to rebuild the old and wore out stockers ?

Since you seem to insist on thread jacking the OPs post, and it looks like it's not going to get back on topic, I guess I can address your question. I've been in contact with the company (in the US) that made these covers for GM way back then. The still have the original print that was used when they were manufacturing these covers for GM. I have a friend that owns a foundry, CNC machines and fab shop. For the last year or so I've been thinking about marrying the two. With the GM print I can address a couple of issues I don't like about the OEM casting, do some flow mods, and add metal for stuff like oil pressure gauge pickups and other custom mods.

By pure happenstance I met the importer that supplys TA with their Chinese castings. He's interested in what I'm working on, so there's a chance I might end up "in business" as a OEM supplier for catalogs and large parts houses.

While I'm there, I've been thinking about casting a unit that will bolt to our engines but accept the newer gear-rotor style pump. That one will probably get shelved as the catalog people aren't that interested in that unit. Believe it or not, I know a lot more about these things that most people realize.

I will never put my name on an offshore casting. There's too many things about then that just flat out suck. If I can't start with good base stock, I won't bother. That being said, if you look at my first on topic reply to the OP, I mentioned that I'd run a GM cover I found at the bottom of the lake before using a brand new chinese unit. I stand by that statement.

You'll also notice that not once have I mentioned I sell these things. I gave out tech advice based on experience and feedback. The OP (remember him?) can decided whether or not to take it. That's up to him. He's new here and has a serious issue(s) to overcome with his car plus Winter is coming up. How about helping him instead of following me around? I guess I'll see you on the next posting of mine you decide to threadjack.

 

[kidglok]

My oil pressure has gone up plus it rises faster with rpm since I installed earls cover over the silver seal that was on my engine.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[scot w.]

Since you seem to insist on thread jacking the OPs post, and it looks like it's not going to get back on topic, I guess I can address your question.

Honestly I have read this entire thread and never seen where anyone hijacked anything. 1slogn is giving his advice and opinion on this front cover situation just like all the other posts in here but it just looks like your not keen on his advice or opinion so your attacking him for it. I was PM'ed that 1slogn has contacted Danny (OP) and is offering to look at and set up his front cover for him so it looks like to me he IS helping him out! and if 1slogn operates like he always does, he will most likely not make a dime off it.... He happens to help out more people than you would ever think of....

 

[Steve V]

My oil pressure has gone up plus it rises faster with rpm since I installed earls cover over the silver seal that was on my engine.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Bet if the silver seal was blueprinted pressures would be very similar between the two.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using TurboBuick Mobile mobile app

 

[kidglok]

Bet if the silver seal was blueprinted pressures would be very similar between the two.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using TurboBuick Mobile mobile app

Possibly.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[earlbrown]

Honestly I have read this entire thread and never seen where anyone hijacked anything. 1slogn is giving his advice and opinion on this front cover situation just like all the other posts in here but it just looks like your not keen on his advice or opinion so your attacking him for it. I was PM'ed that 1slogn has contacted Danny (OP) and is offering to look at and set up his front cover for him so it looks like to me he IS helping him out! and if 1slogn operates like he always does, he will most likely not make a dime off it.... He happens to help out more people than you would ever think of....

How does SloGN asking me what I do when I modify covers have anything t0 do with the OPs original question?

How does him dropping names of other builders and vendors help the OP with his original problem?

And how does SloGN's curisoty of what I'm going to do when the NOS supply of GM covers runs out?

Don't you schmucks worry about me. I'll be just fine. Why don't we worry about the OPs original problem and try and help him get back on the road. From what I understand this car is his DD.

Don't you have some parts to drop ship?

 

[earlbrown]

Possibly.

The ramp up rate most likely won't be (and it damn sure will never be better).

Anybody with a wrench can jack up the WOT pressure, that's just a spring change (or shim).

 

[SloGN]

Since you seem to insist on thread jacking the OPs post, and it looks like it's not going to get back on topic, I guess I can address your question. I've been in contact with the company (in the US) that made these covers for GM way back then. The still have the original print that was used when they were manufacturing these covers for GM. I have a friend that owns a foundry, CNC machines and fab shop. For the last year or so I've been thinking about marrying the two. With the GM print I can address a couple of issues I don't like about the OEM casting, do some flow mods, and add metal for stuff like oil pressure gauge pickups and other custom mods.

By pure happenstance I met the importer that supplys TA with their Chinese castings. He's interested in what I'm working on, so there's a chance I might end up "in business" as a OEM supplier for catalogs and large parts houses.

While I'm there, I've been thinking about casting a unit that will bolt to our engines but accept the newer gear-rotor style pump. That one will probably get shelved as the catalog people aren't that interested in that unit. Believe it or not, I know a lot more about these things that most people realize.

I will never put my name on an offshore casting. There's too many things about then that just flat out suck. If I can't start with good base stock, I won't bother. That being said, if you look at my first on topic reply to the OP, I mentioned that I'd run a GM cover I found at the bottom of the lake before using a brand new chinese unit. I stand by that statement.

You'll also notice that not once have I mentioned I sell these things. I gave out tech advice based on experience and feedback. The OP (remember him?) can decided whether or not to take it. That's up to him. He's new here and has a serious issue(s) to overcome with his car plus Winter is coming up. How about helping him instead of following me around? I guess I'll see you on the next posting of mine you decide to threadjack.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app


Trust me I'm not following you around like you seem to think. I simply cam in here to give my opinion just like you did. Danny is a adult that can make his decision on what cover go use based on the info provided .


but however is do find it funny that you trash talk the Chinese stuff. but yet know the guy in the higher up what imports them . why not try to tell him of issues you seem to have and see if he can't fix them so there over all product is better.


Btw blue prints are kewl but still Molds have be made before casting can be done . Takes a bit of resources to get it done . $$$$$$$$ But if you make it happen I applaud you for doing it as it gives us one more option .


If you do make the gear rotor style pump like the fwd engines have. how are you going to address the drive on the balancer.


Btw I'm here to learn as everybody else and to help when I can .