new to these cars, what does it take to get to the 12's?

[SpoolinUpGN]

Hey guys,

I hate to kill you guys with this sort of post, but I've recently changed from the idea of getting a 4th Gen F-Body (1993-1997 Camaro/Firebird) to getting my stepdad's 1987 Buick Grand National.

So far I've heard nothing but good things about these cars and that it reacts awesome to simple modifications. So heres the question, on a budget (ie no $600 cat-back's) and staying with a stock turbo and no nitrous, what does it take to get one of these into the mid to high 12 second range?

Thanx for the help guys and answering this problem that has probably been beatin to death.

Joe

 

[Whistlin'87GN]

well, im fairly new also and have only had mine for about 3 months, but your best bet is to travel on over to www.gnttype.org
Spend a couple of hours here and soak in the wealth of knowledge.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/recipepage.html
This is probably what you'll be looking for, its a collection of recipes to make your car go fast for cheap!
All in all, to start off with, Adjustable wastegate, bigger fuel pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, a good chip, and you'll be there before you know it, there is more to that, but hopefully some of the more experienced board members will chime in, also make the search button up top your best friend, most questions you will have, have already been answered, but if not just post!
hth, jeff

 

[tim87tr]

Add to the last post, sticky tires (DRs or better yet, slicks), race chip (Thrasher $25), race gas, air bags in rear springs, 20 lb boost, posi G80 code is best, Scanmaster (important to moniter knock and fueling, especially with high boost), and a good 60' at least in the low 1.8s. Free flowing exhaust like a Hooker 2.5" also helps, along with a test pipe.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Whistlin' is correct. The best mod you can do for these cars is to mod your brain. Learn about the cars before you throw money at them.

The first thing you need is some sort of scan tool, so that you know what your car is doing (running rich, running lean, knocking, low voltage etc).

To get one into the 12s you need to gut the cat, K&N, fuel pump & hotwire, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, race gas and race chip, 21lbs of boost and your there, even on street tires. This is all dependant on you learning how to tune the car first, otherwise you could be picking the crank up off the ground.

 

[Two Lane]

That's some very fine advice from Jeff & Tim & B6P !!

Just do it one step at a time...you'll get there!!

HTH

 

[SpoolinUpGN]

Thanx a lot guys, really this is all you need to get into the 12's? Holy crap I checked out that recipe page and he said the same thing you guys are sayin, wow what a difference this is from a camaro. It takes everything u got there, plus cammin' the motor, and more to get into the 12's.

Hey now i've developed a second question. Did you say slicks? You can put slicks on a stock rear end in this car? Even Drag Radials I'm amazed with. Wow, in a Camaro you will leave your rear on the ground if you try anything more than a Nitto drag radial. Thanx for all the help and keep the reply's coming!

 

[1987BuickGrandN]

Don't go modification crazy! On my first outing at the drag strip I laid down some 13.1's with a stock turbo, street tires and a few basic mods. Shortly thereafter I went modification crazy. I upgraded to a PTE51 turbo, 42.5 lb injectors, and a 70mm TB and Plenium. Turns out I went one part overboard, the 70mm TB and Plenium didn't match my heads. I showed up at the drag strip with Mickey T's and 110 leaded race gas. I couldnt get the car to break 13.4. So much for showing those F-Bodys that the buick was boss. At least not that day.

 

[Whistlin'87GN]

Its amazingly easy to get these cars into the 12's as you have seen and they are a ton of fun to drive! Even though itd be fun to row through a 6spd on a 4th gen F-body, having a turbo is a heck of a lot more fun!
Now I dont know what the times are when people recommend changing the rear end out, but i know its very very low. Good tires are very important on these cars because they're torque motors (turbo=torque, torque=fun) and the good part about slicks or sticky tires, is you can powerbrake it, build boost, and launch hard!
But which ever one you get (come to the darkside!!!) have fun!
-Jeff

 

[Renthorin]

Also, try to find someone nearby who has been down this road. A second opinion on all your mods is always good.

 

[SpoolinUpGN]

Thanx for all the replies guys, this is some really great information.

In response to Renthorin, i live in Massachusetts and I guess there is a shop called Cotton's Performance and its about an hour from where I am. Has anyone ever dealt w/ them? How are their prices?

After looking over these posts, I was just wondering if a 2800 stall converter and Bruce's shift-kit are needed for the 12's, are they helpful? If I'm going to be driving this car on the street 75% of the time compared to 25% track time, and im on a budget , which 2800 stall should i go with guys?

One last question, I understand gauges are needed for this car because of all the stupid idiot lights we have. I know that the gauges we need are Tach, boost, water temp, and oil pressure. I've been looking at VDO stuff, cockpit series, 25 bux per gauge. plus the a-pillar holder for the boost, and the console below the radio for the water temp and oil. But what else do I need to hook them up? I plan on getting mechanical gauges so what's needed?

wow this is a long post! sorry guys but these cars are so much different than a camaro or firebird that I originally planned on!

 

[buickfreak]

Simple combo for 12 sec

- Ajustable fuel pressure regulator
- High performance fuel pump
- Ajustable wastegate
- Dual Exhaust
- 3" inch DP for extra spice
- Good chip
- Good gas
- Good sticky tires
- Maybe go with the basic suspension mods to help on launch (pinion snubber, air bag, bigger rear sway bar, remove the front one)
- And the most important piece the K&N

And thats about it, TUNE IT , race it, go back home with a 12 sec timeslip

 

[Two Lane]

Spoolin,

You are very lucky to live so close to Agawam & Jack's shop.

He has customers that have driven 18-24 hours (1-way) in order
to have their TR's under his care.

Rest assured, from a tune-up to a trans/motor build,
you couldn't do better!

HTH

 

[gnturbo]

I would not go as far as to say chip,gas and street tires and you are in the twelves.I have strong running car ,for being close to stock.I use 110 octane,thrasher 108 and 26x8 slicks and get pretty good launches with 1.7 60 's and I have yet to get a 12.99 all I get is 13.04-13.08.I have read a lot of stuff on here and when some one tells some one new all they have to do is put gas and a chip and run 12's on street tires I laugh.Or maybe I cry cuz I can't do it.I have a friend that has a t-44 ,009's and quite a few mods and is in the low 12's.But I guess it is like everything else there are "super cars" out there that do things that normal cars are not capable of.Buddy of mine in high school said he had a 1987 t-type that all he did was put a hypertech chip in his and it would just about pull the tires off the ground ,again I laugh. Read up and study hard cuz these cars take alot of study and love but the end result is worth it.

 

[1987BuickGrandN]

these turbo buicks are like any car, some are faster then others. i had a friend drop $4500 into a 01 SS Camaro (6spd) and he couldnt get the thing into the 12's. Yet my other friend with another 01 SS Camaro (6-spd) Broke into the 12's with a K&N and COld air induction. Same goes for these buicks. I was amazed to see a guy blowing my car away with less money and better tuneing.

 

[buickfreak]

it's all about the driver, it's all about the driver guys

 

[gnturbo]

yeah I guess some guys can push on the gas pedal harder than others

 

[Nocooler]

Rule #1 of owning a TR:

Make sure it is running right before you mod the car!

Start with a Spring Cleaning.

Learn how to use your scan tool - its your new best friend.

Keep it simple, and one mod at a time and you'll be smiling @ those 12 second slip.

 

[SpoolinUpGN]

Man what do I say to such great people here! Haha, you guys are the best help, now I'm very excited about Cotton's performance, if anyone knows about the Summer Nationals held in Worcester, Massachusetts, anyone with a Turbo Buick knows this guy!

Woops, so right someone mentioned that you can add a 3" downpipe for "extra spice" and I have seen the famous THDP and I love how the cut-out is welded in and everything, but I'm not sure if I will be able to drop $450 so easily, although I imagine it is worth it. Are there any other 3" downpipes that are available that arn't maybe so expensive but perform really well? I really don't need the cut-out either, I'd rather run through a hooker.

By the way, what injectors are good for running with the mods we have been talking here, are '009' injectors good for this setup? thanks a ton guys

 

[Two Lane]

Downpipe Question

www.atrperformance.com

Jack is also a dealer for them.

www.cottonsperformance.com

HTH

 

[Nocooler]

Originally posted by SpoolinUpGN
By the way, what injectors are good for running with the mods we have been talking here, are '009' injectors good for this setup? thanks a ton guys

009'S are good but clean stockers will take you safely to 109-110mph in 1/4. Look up Chuck Leeper if you want your injectors serviced - I think it runs about $90-$100.