New valve spring advice for a roller 210/215?

[JDSfastGN]

I run a fullthrottle 210/215 Intake 210 @ .050 .516 lift Exhaust 215 @ .050 .516 lift
110 L/S roller that has been in the car for probably 5-6 years now. Probably only 15-20k miles at the most but I'm thinking about changing the springs. They are the beehives that I think are PAC springs that come with the kit. I have been out of the Buick world for a few years and was wondering if these are still the springs to use or would y'all recommend something a bit heavier like the PAC 1201s? Any changes required to run these over a setup that already has the Beehives? The car just doesn't like it very much over 5600 it seems. Thanks for the advice. The car is my 87 GN in the sig if there are any questions about the setup.

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

I took my Beehive out and put 1201 pac in and very happy with the results as my mine would not turn but 4900 with the beehives , now it will turn what I want

 

[JDSfastGN]

Thanks, it was your post in another thread that made me decide to ask the question . What lifters are you running with that setup and are those springs too much for the morels I'm running? I read a thread where somebody mentioned that as well.....

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

. What lifters are you running

Morel

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

Any changes required to run these over a setup that already has the Beehives?

you will have to buy new retainers and locks

 

[JDSfastGN]

Yeah I figured the locks and keepers as well. Thanks for the advice. I'd like to be able to shift around 6k. It makes it to 6k right now but it doesn't feel as effortless as my dads T or a friends roller setup. I will test their strength just to see what they are at.

 

[qws2000]

comp 941.... same boat

 

[David Husek]

I run a fullthrottle 210/215 Intake 210 @ .050 .516 lift Exhaust 215 @ .050 .516 lift
110 L/S roller that has been in the car for probably 5-6 years now. Probably only 15-20k miles at the most but I'm thinking about changing the springs. They are the beehives that I think are PAC springs that come with the kit. I have been out of the Buick world for a few years and was wondering if these are still the springs to use or would y'all recommend something a bit heavier like the PAC 1201s? Any changes required to run these over a setup that already has the Beehives? The car just doesn't like it very much over 5600 it seems. Thanks for the advice. The car is my 87 GN in the sig if there are any questions about the setup.

Pac 1201 are a bit heavy for you application, but they can work. I don't like to see 450lbs open with morels. You will need to switch to 885 lifters. I would look at the comp 941, pac 1200 or the kmotion k750 springs. You will not need more than 410lbs open on the cam you are using. You will need to purchase the new springs, shim, retainer and keepers to get the job done. Maybe change the valve seals while you are doing the swap. I can set you up with a set of new springs and/or lifters if needed. Any questions, feel free to contact me direct ...

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

the kmotion k750 springs

I tried the 750 kmotions and it did the same thing would not rev past 4900 rpm , they were the same seat pressure and nose as the beehives so that was the reason they acted the same . all I know is my cam or set up needed more pressure on the nose than 410lbs to work in the real world , btw the springs hardly ever come up to their specs out of the box with the digital checker without tweaking

 

[BEATAV8]

I run the 215/220 with PAC1201 springs. Took care of my issues when I went to that spring. Using 1.55 scorpion rockers. 6000RPM and better without problems.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Pac 1201 are a bit heavy for you application, but they can work. I don't like to see 450lbs open with morels. You will need to switch to 885 lifters. I would look at the comp 941, pac 1200 or the kmotion k750 springs. You will not need more than 410lbs open on the cam you are using. You will need to purchase the new springs, shim, retainer and keepers to get the job done. Maybe change the valve seals while you are doing the swap. I can set you up with a set of new springs and/or lifters if needed. Any questions, feel free to contact me direct ...

Thanks for the advice. Where are you seeing 450 open pressure? Im seeing 410... What issues have you seen with the Morels on a 410 lb spring?

I run the 215/220 with PAC1201 springs. Took care of my issues when I went to that spring. Using 1.55 scorpion rockers. 6000RPM and better without problems.

Which lifters are you running on that setup? Im running stock rockers still and adjustable pushrods if that matters at all. I was pretty set on the 1201s until I read Davids advice against them with the Morels.

 

[David Husek]

I tried the 750 kmotions and it did the same thing would not rev past 4900 rpm , they were the same seat pressure and nose as the beehives so that was the reason they acted the same . all I know is my cam or set up needed more pressure on the nose than 410lbs to work in the real world , btw the springs hardly ever come up to their specs out of the box with the digital checker without tweaking

I run the 215/220 with PAC1201 springs. Took care of my issues when I went to that spring. Using 1.55 scorpion rockers. 6000RPM and better without problems.

Your setups are totally different than what the op has. Aluminum heads would require more valve spring than iron heads do. Both of your cams are much larger and more aggressive also. Your valve components are heavier also needing higher pressures to control the valve train.

I just tested 48 k-750 springs into 4 matched set and they all were very close. 155@1.650 and 415@1.100. Good for .550 lift and adequate for many roller cams with irons

These are my findings, but others may have different results than I do.

 

[Mike Licht]

We have used the 1201 with the standard Morel and had no problems. We also have the short travel Morel lifter which we now use in place of the old 885 comp lifter (which is discontinued) if you looking to really rev the motor. We have springs, lifters and things ready to go depending on needs
Mike

 

[JDSfastGN]

Thanks Mike, what are the specs or brand on the beehives that come in the revolution kits?

 

[David Husek]

Thanks for the advice. Where are you seeing 450 open pressure? Im seeing 410... What issues have you seen with the Morels on a 410 lb spring?

The pressure at 1.200 should be 437# in the PAC catalog, not 410#. PAC has a typo. I went back to work to check a set for you, see picture at your open pressure at 1.185, which is 450# with a PAC1201 spring.

I have experienced performance issue with the Morels. This is the main reason I now have my own roller lifters for sale. When changing them out for the readily available 885 lifters, same spring, the engines performance improves and as expected will rev stronger. At 450#, the lifter will work, but performance will be reduced. These are my findings and others may have similar or different results.

I wouldn’t use adjustable pushrods in your engine. Get .120 wall pushrods the correct length and if you do use the 1201’s, get yourself a set of roller rockers. 450# is a lot of pressure for stock rockers.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Thank you David, I appreciate the advice and taking the measurements! K750s may be what I end up with, as a good friend has run them for a while on his iron headed car and consistently pulls it to 6500.

 

[David Husek]

If I can be of anymore assistance, please feel free to contact me

 

[BEATAV8]

Which lifters are you running on that setup? Im running stock rockers still and adjustable pushrods if that matters at all. I was pretty set on the 1201s until I read Davids advice against them with the Morels.

I have the comp 853 lifters.

I just noticed Dave mentioned the PAC catalog has a typo. So I need to re-figure my pressures. But based on the printed info I thought I was at 147lb @ 1.735" installed. 400lb @ 1.218" intake open, and 408lb @ 1.205" exhaust open.

These have been in the car since last summer, driven it quite a bit and raced it a few times. The 853's have been OK but I would like to switch to the 885's for my next build.

 

[Mike Licht]

Thanks Mike, what are the specs or brand on the beehives that come in the revolution kits?

We use pac springs 1218, or 1219 depending on cam and application. We also use the 1201, 1201X or 1205 at customer request again by application

 

[David Husek]

I have the comp 853 lifters.

I just noticed Dave mentioned the PAC catalog has a typo. So I need to re-figure my pressures. But based on the printed info I thought I was at 147lb @ 1.735" installed. 400lb @ 1.218" intake open, and 408lb @ 1.205" exhaust open.

These have been in the car since last summer, driven it quite a bit and raced it a few times. The 853's have been OK but I would like to switch to the 885's for my next build.

I am carrying the 885 lifters – If you need a set, I have the comp cams 885 on sale right now in the advertiser specials section.

For your reference, the pictures shows the 1201 springs at common installed heights