NIU shootings ....any thoughts?

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Brer Rabbit

Pursuit Specialist
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
2,892
I can't help but think how many times are incidents like this going to happen before there are steps taken to stop something like this as soon as it starts? If a few of the students had been armed, theres a good chance that only 1 or 2 people would have been injured. Or how about a legit Campus Police force with an appropriate number of Officers on patrol constantly walking thru the buildings and patrolling the grounds at all times. It cant be a money issue--NIU is not cheap school to attend. I dont get it.
 
Stuff like that is exactly why I didn't go to college. But my
son is at U of I makes me a little worried.
 
I don't understand this .. We had a "kid" in HS here making a threat like Columbine (sp) . He was found guilty yesterday. Waiting to see what the court actually does to him .. Sad part is I believe his dad was a policeman :confused: I can go on with other stupid stuff happening BUT I would be here all day :p
 
No...No...No.

The administration obviously needs to spend more time letting students know that the campus is a weapon free zone.

It's obvious that if the shooter had known that it was against campus rules to bring his gun on school grounds, that this would've never happened.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Restricted ID access for colleges and buildings to keep freaks out.

It will move to id and create restricted access to enter all buildings.

People are more emotional and angry then in the past and times will only get harder for everyone. Job and family loss...

The restrictions and courts need to be implemented asap... It seems it is out of control to not only commit suicide but to take others... All I can say is freak. Our courts do not control those out of control only those who try to protect their image and have something of value to lose.

At first people thought of it as a joke and then responded to my life is in danger... right to bear arms does not protect us, the colleges have to prevent people from entering schools with adequate ids and security in mind.

Look at work jobs where ids are required to enter buildings, it may prevent those outside the school, but how do you prevent students attending college actually losing it mentally. We cannot be afraid to go to college, but be aware of our environment and those around you to report weird behavior... cautious is better than being shot or found dead.
 
Courts have inadequate punishment for crimes. PERIOD.

NO more prisons, no more courts, is an extreme, but the logic is simple. But extreme times require extreme resolutions.

Courts have inadequate punishment for crimes, period, quit wasting taxpayer money, use DNA evidence, the actual truth is we are Guilty until proven innocent, period. Wrong place at the wrong time is your own fault, Driving at night when bars and clubs are closing puts your life and others in danger. Why do you think I stay off the roads when HS kids that drive get out of school or I go home before bars and clubs close at night. It is sad to have to think to protect from being hurt, but the truth may hurt or cause death.

Death penalty needs to be implemented to stop the prisons from filling up and causing over spending for rehabilitation. Remove computers, cable tv, gym equipment. I visited a friend who barely gets by becuz of child support and lack of working enough of hours to support his family. Life would be better to commit a crime and get sentenced to jail so he eats 3 meals a day, use a computer, watch tv, clean bed and does not have to support his children and then the government can help resolve by asking taxpayers to fix it all.

While I was in Hawaii, the local person stated that politicians are like palm trees, they start out straight and as they grow older they get crooked, and then at the top they are nuts... The police can't protect us all the time, there are just too many people... People who bully and tease others are the fuel of the fire that cause people to snap. Love and emotions and breakups are tough, but it is life. Those who commit suicide have nothing to lose and nothing to live for in their sick little world. Help and rehabilitation wil not help. If rehab was not an option and just the end of life, maybe the people would know when they are in trouble.

Make a mistake, you are dead. Taunting a tiger OR a human with a gun (any age) can be very bad, it is the evolution of man to know your boundaries and to seek protection.
 
Ahhhhh... the pros and cons of freedom.

You just can't police everything and everybody. If someone has it in their mind to kill, they're going to do it. Look at the middle east for example.

This is just another case of another disturbed A-hole, Maniac, who happens to wants to kill himself and take out as many people as he can with himself. Maybe he intended to break the other kids recent record over at Virginia Tech. Who knows? Who cares? What's done is done. Pillage and Mayhem.

The people he took out- senselessly and early lives they lived. Nevertheless, that was their destiny to say the least.

Life just sucks sometimes, plain and simple. I feel for the families of the victims- all of them.
 
Looks like there were no signs..

A local news station was already all over his background. There was nothing in his recent past that pointed to something like this ....so far. The worst part about an incident like this is the excessive media coverage. Everyday people get killed on the streets of Chicago in gang related incidents but rarely do they get more than a blurb on the news. This story will take the place of the Tinley Park Clothing store murders as far as attention anyway.
 
I can't help but think how many times are incidents like this going to happen before there are steps taken to stop something like this as soon as it starts? If a few of the students had been armed, theres a good chance that only 1 or 2 people would have been injured. Or how about a legit Campus Police force with an appropriate number of Officers on patrol constantly walking thru the buildings and patrolling the grounds at all times. It cant be a money issue--NIU is not cheap school to attend. I dont get it.
PD response time was reported as being only 2 minutes. Even if a officer was checking in on the room what are the chances of getting a clear shot? I could only imagine the chaos of people running for their lives. Armed students might help, but this is IL. We have so many gun laws not even the DA knows them all. Short of pumping antidepressants into the water what can you really do to prevent things like this.
 
I don't know if the students should be armed, that may be mess waiting to happen, but the professors being armed and trained in the proper use of the weapon sounds ok to me. Also, a heavier and more pronounced police presence may help. It's crazy, absolutely nothing like that ever even occurred to me happening when I was in college in the 90's. Parents, pay attention to your kids!
 
Ahhhhh... the pros and cons of freedom.

You just can't police everything and everybody.

Very good point.

Can't please everyone. If you send armed guards to patrol school campuses then you'll have people complaining that "big brother" is getting too involved in everyone's lives. If you start searching every person coming in the building, someone will cry that their privacy is being invaded.
 
I wish the media wouldn't plaster these coward's faces all over TV and the web. That is what they want. At a pro sports event when someone runs out on the field the cameras instantly flash away and they do not show the person on TV cuz that is what they want. I see this a-hole's face constantly and hardly any info about the people who lost their lives. That is just not right. and gun control is not the answer. bad people will always get guns, that's why they're bad. More good people need guns.
 
I agree more good people with guns would be a pretty good deterrent against a lot of crimes. Criminals prey on the weak if the odds are even or close to even they generally will not attempt anything. In a case like this I don't think there was too much that would of stopped that maniac. If he wouldn't of been able to get into a lecture hall he might of just walked through the campus and went to a restaurant, bar, or convenience store. However a professor with training and a weapon might of limited the damage he could of done.

You can't police everyone but you shouldn't take away the right of good people to police themselves and their community. No gun law is going to keep bad people from having guns.
 
Just had a talk with my son about this. He just laughed at the idea of students with guns. He said it's stupid enough when idiots get there beer muscles on, all they need is some boneheads with guns to really f the party up. I cannnot see how anyone thinks they could have whipped out a gun and shot this guy. It was a lecture hall full of students. Pure chaos would make a clean shot at the guy impossible. This isn't Hollywood. Even if someone managed to fire some rounds at the guy chances are they would have hit a bystander rather than the gunman with all the pushing and shoving.

My nephew who is a Boston cop described a shooting he was involved in. A mess of cops had surrounded an off duty prison guard than went nutz and led them on a chase. When he got out of his car he was waving a gun around. All the cops started shooting accept my nephew. He had to duck for his life from the guys behind him shooting blindly over the tops of the cruisers. He nearly got shot because no one was even aiming at the nut with the gun, they were just throwing shots blindly. My nephew said there were holes in his cruiser, not from the nut, from fellow cops. I can't imagine what the scene would be with a bunch of students shooting every which way at a nut with a gun. Then what happens when the cops do get there? Do they start shooting anyone with a gun because they don't know who the bad guy is and can't take a chance on themselves getting shot?
 
This was an article in American Handgunner magazine after the Virginia tech shootings. I think that it applies here also.


From the Sept/Oct 2007 Issue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Virginia Tech:
Rage, Reflection and Rejection



Guest Editorial by Handgunner’s own John Connor
Editor’s Note: I discussed the Virginia Tech incident with Connor during one of his rare “phone into the office” moments. After talking, I realized John could say it better than I ever could, so I asked him to send us his thoughts. Reading this, you might think he was calm, thoughtful and methodical while he was writing it. Nope. If we had strapped some cans of old paint to him, the contents would have been whipped to a froth from the rage-induced vibration. Best not to mention it to him for a while, perhaps — until his Heat Index drops below “volcanic.”

How could this have happened? Is that a serious question? In a place where possession of a gun — and indeed, any effective means of self-defense — is prohibited; a place packed with young people who have been taught that surrender and submission is not only the correct, but the morally superior response to lethal confrontation; a slaughter-chute where the prey were lulled by a moronic mantra of “this is a gun-free zone; a safe and nurturing place; there is nothing to fear,” 32 are killed at leisure by a lone, armed psychotic. Through a red film of rage, I ask, I cry, How could it NOT have happened? Did thinking people not know, from both ancient and modern history, and from simple common sense, that it had to happen?

First, disarm as many citizens as possible. Restrict their God-given right to self-defense, and make those who successfully deter predators the subjects of aggressive prosecution and endless life-destroying lawsuits on behalf of their would-be murderers. Create “killing boxes,” and fill them with infantilized, mind-massaged victims, and give them rules against resisting killers. Forbid trained, experienced, armed citizens and even off-duty peace officers from bearing arms in those zones, and ridicule those who protest as “paranoids.”


Coddle the obviously crazed and dangerous. Brush aside and ignore their prolonged, repeated, graphic threats of grisly mass murder. Minimize their malignant malice; indulge it as “diversity” and celebrate its “otherness.” If the most obvious threat is brought before a court, then fumble and fail, without follow-up, and hold no one accountable for it, because the guilty are “gentle, compassionate, socially-sensitive souls.” Do not blink at the ticking time bomb’s return to the classroom, where his freshly embittered brain spews out even more and greater warnings of the coming explosion.


Finally, claim this inevitable event, and the actions of its architect “could never have been foreseen,” even if, absurdly, you “knew it had to be Cho” when you heard of the slaughter. Only a “respected professor” or other half-wit could utter such words without seeing their irony.


Above all, totally abdicate decision-making power on the issues of arms and self-defense to those who are completely unqualified to even address the subjects.


A Better Bloodbath


In America, many of our oldest and most onerous gun laws were crafted by criminals and passed by their puppet politicians. Frequently their purpose, as in New York City, was to prohibit arms to rival gangs. In other places, like Chicago and San Francisco, their aim was to criminalize ethnic minorities and “subversive elements,” including blue-collar workers with coal on their clothes and grease under their fingernails; those who might organize and object to dangerous slave labor conditions and perennial poverty.


Following on that foundation came more restrictive weapons laws propounded by “progressive thinkers” and “social engineers,” many of whom also embraced the “science” of “eugenics,” which called for the euthanasia of “congenital misfits, morons and degenerates.” Jews were, as a race, defined as degenerates. The “progressive” philosophy also envisioned a more “manageable, unarmed populace” of those who were not quite bound for the gas chambers, but well below the sophistication level of “gifted society” — those “born to lead.” They only abandoned euthanasia, by the way, when the Third Reich co-opted the theme.


Tyrants and gangsters still exert their influence, because corrupt politicians prefer unarmed peasants; a simple fact. Their motives ethically disqualify them from such decision-making. Then, increasingly, our laws, policies and public perceptions have been and are promoted and enforced by psychological cripples, the emotionally unbalanced, and moral cowards.


Am I being rash and unreasonable?


Please consider this: Those who fear inanimate objects — tools like guns and knives — and believe them to be intrinsically evil or capable of inspiring evil, are clearly psychologically crippled. They cannot think rationally about arms and their lawful use. Those who cannot differentiate between armed, trained, dedicated guardians of their fellow man, and twisted, predatory, psychotic killers, based on shared use of firearms, are clearly emotionally unbalanced. Those who so morbidly fear physical confrontation they preach submission and surrender, even unto death, in preference to fighting for life — and seek to enforce that condition upon others — are moral cowards.


None are possessed of the courage, wisdom and appreciation of the dynamics of violence and counter-violence requisite to engage in decision-making on those critical issues — yet they do. They persist, and the killing zones widen, deepen and darken with the blood of innocents.


Our rights and freedoms were fought for and affirmed by brave and brilliant men, now derided and ridiculed by academia and the effete as “Irrelevant Dead White Males.” Our rights have been stolen by the unworthy. To them we must say, “Your way has not, does not, will not work. Sit down and SHUT UP!”



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• Classic Scribes


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Kimber - Continuing The Legacy
 
Just had a talk with my son about this. He just laughed at the idea of students with guns. He said it's stupid enough when idiots get there beer muscles on, all they need is some boneheads with guns to really f the party up. I cannot see how anyone thinks they could have whipped out a gun and shot this guy. It was a lecture hall full of students. Pure chaos would make a clean shot at the guy impossible. This isn't Hollywood. Even if someone managed to fire some rounds at the guy chances are they would have hit a bystander rather than the gunman with all the pushing and shoving.

With all due respect,your son has probably never been in such a situation and would likely think different about students carrying firearms if the same situation were to occur at his college. He apparently does not trust himself or others very well. An armed student would've definitely stopped the killer in his tracks. Of course you don't start firing into the crowd at the gunman. You try to find a clear shot preferably at his rear. I know this may be cowardly but who says a battle for your life should be fair. Most importantly don't run with the crowd. I know it sounds crazy it limits your options of escape and packs you in tighter with crowd,making it more likely for more people to be killed. I don't know if your son is anti-gun completely but you should definitely show him that guns are tools used to save lives in the hands of a responsible and good person,not destroy lives. If anyone is to be blamed for these deaths,it should be the Illinois state gov't for not allowing concealed carry permits. If a student would have had a concealed carry permit(which requires an extensive background check before approval,therefore theoritically the right people can carry),the only person that might've died that day was the attacking gunman.
 
With all do repect I think your kidding yourself if you think you would find a clear shot in lecture hall of 100 students paniced and doing whatever they can go get away. Neither my son or I have any issue with legal gun ownership. Though we both see nothing wrong with registration and gun safety training.
 
With all do repect I think your kidding yourself if you think you would find a clear shot in lecture hall of 100 students paniced and doing whatever they can go get away. Neither my son or I have any issue with legal gun ownership. Though we both see nothing wrong with registration and gun safety training.
It's not really the issue of finding a clear shot. The main point I was trying to make is that an armed student could have at least attempted to save lives that day if he or she was in that lecture hall,provided Illinois didn't have their screwed up gun laws.
Once again no disrespect meant, but your son was incorrect and misinformed to think that students should not be allowed to carry guns. People have a right to defend themselves. I don't know if you've ever heard the saying "It's better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6" but I think it applies here. If a student were to start shooting at my college,I would damn sure defend myself,with lethal force if needed,whether the law was on my side or not. No one should be able deprive my of my life just because some dumb law says I can't defend myself.
 
After my son's 4 years of beening around his buds drinking and fighting over broads, I think he is thoroughly informed on how stupid guys get at college. Putting a gun in the mix in his (and my) opinion is just asking for trouble. All you have to do is look at YouTube and see all the ridiculous and dangerous stunts done by drunken college students, try that with some yahoo with a gun. Someone is going to get shot or killed. Those drunking parties happen way more than any of these shooting.

Trying to say "not getting a clear shot is not the issue" is absolutly foolish. It has EVERYTHING to do with someone thinking they can "protect" themselves in a crowed, chaotic lecture hall. Have you ever been in a paniced crowd? I have. There's no standing your ground and focusing on a target. Getting bumped and pushed by dozens of students how the hell do you can protect yourself? Shoot the people around you so you don't get bumped long enough to shoot the gunman? What if you're just about to fire and someone pushes your arm and you shoot your girlfriend right between the eyes? What if 2 other people start shooting. Do you shoot at them because you don't know if they are accomplices of the first guy?
 
Your son should not be hanging around those guys in the first place. They sound like the wrong crowd and I'm sure your son is a lot more intelligent and responsible than they are. Yes college students can be obnoxious. I should know considering I go to a local college and have seen this kind of behavior. But the small portion of drunk college kids do not represent the whole college population. Concealed carry license or no license,it's illegal to carry a gun in a bar in the first place,at least in Georgia it is. If they happen to carry in a bar and get caught,then it's their fault and no one else's. Not many people know that it is illegal to carry in a bar or any business that serves alcohol for comsumption on the premises, but that is one of the rules that was written on the back of my carry license when I received it.
I do not advocate students carrying guns into bars of course. I'm saying they should be allowed to carry on campus and anywhere a carry license allows. I highly doubt a drunk student will come to class on the weekday and start shooting up the school.
I don't mean to insult your viewpoints but you are feeding into the gun control advocates' lies. They want you to believe that shootouts at colleges happen all the time. Please show me the statistics that tell how many shootings on a college campus were caused by drunk college students or negligent behavior, instead of a planned attack like Columbine,VA Tech,or NUI. I can almost GUARANTEE that there are probably none or little shootings associated with drunk college students. I mean this with care when I say that you and your son need to start trusting people more and not buy into the drunk college student stereotype. There are many good college kids out there who just want to protect themselves but are denied their constitutional rights to defend their life and liberty by universities who think that hiring additional security is the answer. Look at VA Tech and how long it took them to respond. Many families lost loved ones due to the inability of the university to respond. I and many other people believe that a person's security lies in their hands alone,not in the hands of the police or security.

I admit it's highly unlikely,if not impossible to get a shot in the crowd. I was wrong. The point of getting a clear shot is secondary to the fact that students should have at least had the means to put up a fighting chance against the shooter. What if,God forbid,your son was in that crowd? Wouldn't you want him to be able to defend himself and others? If the shooter even knew that there were armed students on campus,then he would think twice about the attack. Campuses across America are such easy targets because everyone knows the students are basically helpless and that many students can be killed or wounded before authorities even have the chance to respond.
 
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