Nodular main caps better then billet (World Products News)

[KWIKR 1]

This was passed on by a machinist friend of mine : I have some interesting news from World Products : Quote - Myth #6 - Steel billet main caps are best . FALSE !! . Nodular iron caps can actually be superior in various application for several key reasons . For example , nodular iron has the same rate of expansion as a iron block , so the top and bottom halves of the main bearings have a constant (steel elongates more) clamping. Today's nodular iron alloys are tough as steel ( about 180 on the bernnell hardness scale . What's more, the material characteristics are such that they can do a better job of "absorbing" crankshaft flex. This leads to reduced internal friction and superior bearing life. In fact, nodular caps are far more expensive to make than billet, as you start with a special casting.

Interesting ?

 

[6PacktoGo]

Considering the quality I've seen coming out of World Products lately, nothing they claimed would surprise me. Take a look at any premium block from GM, Dart, Brodix, Rodeck, Donavan, or Fontana, and tell me what you see. World Products has been in a steady decline since they split with Richard Maskin.

 

[zam70]

Could be true...Nodular iron is some bad ass stuff! I had some exhaust manifolds (not TR) made from nodular iron....very impressed with it's "toughness" for lack of a better word.

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by ILBCNU6
TA Performance's new aluminum V6 engine has a bullit proof bottom end! Gene

The first block hasn't actually been "tested" yet Are claims just from photos? It could turn out to be a real POS when it is really field tested.

 

[FJM568]

The Buick 455 crank is nodular, way back when from '70-'76...

 

[The Radius Kid]

Huh?
Nodular iron has the equivalent strength of 1020 steel and HALF the shock resistance.
4340 billet has twice the strength of 1020 and 4140 has 50% greater strength than 1020.4340 and 4140 will both take a heck of a lot of shock before failure[a lot more than nodular iron].
Nodular iron is used as a stopgap when the manufacturer doesn't want to spring for steel,but wants something better than regular iron.
Hope that clears up any misconceptions for you.

 

[Phatman]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
Huh?

Nodular iron is used as a stopgap when the manufacturer doesn't want to spring for steel,but wants something better than regular iron.

That's just what I was thinking.....

 

[S2V6RACER]

O.K. so who's spinning main bearings and has noted a direct link to mains with funny wear patterns? If there was a problem(with us), then I would read into what he says a little more.

 

[KWIKR 1]

Here's something to throw into the topic .if you do a search of posts were unexplained main bearing failure has occured on the #2 or the #3 journals .you may find it seems like it happens more with blocks that have the billet caps installed. then the blocks that only have stock caps . It could be conseqential or the result of poor machine shop work . Or could it somehow be linked to the nodular vs steel question . Before you start blasting away . Do a search on the topic . I bet 9 out of 10 post you will see that the the engine did have steel caps .

I did a lot of searching on the topic this summer . because of a new rebuild I had was having unexplained main bearing failure . That was most likely one of the reasons this info from World Products was forwarded to me .

 

[turbodave231]

I wouldn't put much weight in what World Products says. Their quality is crap and their customer service is worse. I can only speculate on their engineering prowess.

I bought a pair of assembled SBC heads from them and I disassembled them for a quick look see. The guides were major messed up. World wouldn't issue a call tag for return, and I ended up paying the shipping to return the heads. I had to fight with them to get a refund too.

Nodular iron is stronger than grey iron.....true. But better than billet steel? Who are they trying to kid?????? I was born at night....but not last night.

DR

 

[KWIKR 1]

Dave , no doubt billet steel is stronger then nodular steel . but I think the info relates to when they (billet caps) are use in combination with a iron block . there is always the possiblity of "somekind" of fact in their statement . They must have some knowledge to base their statement on . But then again , I'm not a engine builder or a metallurgist . another piece of info for us Buick guys to ponder .

 

[6PacktoGo]

First, the difference in the thermal coefficient of expansion of ferrous metals is negligible.

Second, if it were a matter of the difference in the thermal expansion coefficient, then all the aluminum blocks would be screwed, since they are ALUMINUM, and use STEEL BILLET caps. Like 8000 horsepower Top Fuel Blocks, 1800 horsepower Pro Stock blocks, 3000 horsepower pulling truck and tractor blocks, 800 horsepower sprint car and dirt late model blocks, and on and on and on.

Third, World Products is DESPERATELY attempting to retain their limited and slipping hold on the market. They're getting thier arse handed to them, by Dart, and several other companies. Price is all they have to offer. And the only reason steel caps are significantly higher on Chevy engines is because the rear cap has all the oil passages and oil pump mounts. That's the only reason Dart even offers a nodular cap Chevy block (the rear main is much cheaper to make in nodular iron, you can cast in all the features), and that's why they don't offer a nodular cap Ford block (the Ford has no oil passages or oil pump mounts on the caps, so steel billet is CHEAP!). No one even offers a dry sump Chevy block with nodular caps, they're all steel billet, with the possible exception of World Products crap. And the New Zealand company making the Pro Action head is tearing World Products to pieces, twice as good a head, with a better, cleaner casting, for $50 less per head!!!

Fourth, if nodular iron so damned tough, why is the use of nodualr iron strictly prohibited in the manufacture of harmonic balancers, and flywheels and pressure plates for solid lifter (read high RPM) engines by most major sanctioning bodies? Why do companies like GM still use and sell forged steel rods and cranks? Why don't people who can AFFORD ANYTHING THEY WANT not buy nodular iron rods, cranks, and main caps? Because cast nodular iron is markedly inferior to steel forgings or billets, plain simple fact.

The only reason people are having problems with billet caps is poor machine work or bad caps. We've NEVER, EVER had a steel billet cap spin a main bearing, EVER!!!!!!! Not in over 20 years.

Buy and believe what you will, it's your money.

 

[KWIKR 1]

Yeah , I learned the hard way . 4 rebuilds in one season. but I also learned any good engine builder can build a Buick V6 (just don't use the one I had ) . be it a Chevy , Mazda , Ford , or what ever builder . Some of the fastest cars on this board have come out of personal garages not out of big name ones . we all know engine building is not a rocket science . He just has to know a Buick turbo V6 requires different details to a SB Chevy or a Ford . Could a engine builder who rebuilds $$$$$$ Ferrari engines not be able to build a Buick V6 given the right info and specs ? The difference between a good builder or bad builder regardless of what type of engine he is building . Is his personal commitment to detail and workmanship . Sure all the big names can build outstanding Buick engines . But that is their little special market niche that hey have carved out for themselves .

6packtogo , I'll buy that .

 

[The Radius Kid]

I'm betting that the 9 out of 10 failures you read about due to steel caps are due to poor machining.
When a stock cap fails at high H/P levels,you usually don't hear about it because it's expected.
I'm willing to bet that there's WAY more steel cap bottom ends out there running quite successfully,without any problems.
It's just been a proven technique for a long time now.
BTW,the coefficient of expansion thing is right on[I knew I forgot to mention something ,DOH!].

 

[Ed Valvo]

I agree with the Radius Kid on this one. One more thing to think about is whether you run nodular or billet caps, you're limited by the 2 bolt mains and block strength. If you detonate hard enough, you WILL experience cap walk with aftermarket caps and ARP studs. Bottom line, tune carefully!

 

[KWIKR 1]

I maybe doing a pet project build up this winter . unless it becomes proven fact . the bottom line is, I'll still be putting caps on .