Non IC testing

[Razor]

Well the last few weeks been a bit busy. In the middle of this I wanted to start doing some testing.. Unless I have data I cant say whether something works or not.. So here goes.

A little background..
My car is an 89 Mustang. Yeah I know.. I got the Mustang trying to get more marketshare as 90+% of the kits I make are for GM vehicles. I applied what I have learned working and tuning on the Buicks on this setup. The computer for example is the FAST XFI I had on my TTA. Motor was assembled by me in my garaje. Off the shelf pistons JE's, Speedpro rings, Clevite bearings, nice 4 bolt A4 block, Holley heads with some mild porting, 60 lb injectors, etc. heads are o-ringed and I use Ford graphite gaskets(40.00). Car is used to run in True Street which requires 30 mile cruise.. and 3 back to back runs.. for an average. In 2010 it averaged 10.17. In 2011 it averaged 10.04 for the 10 sec class win. At the time it had a 76 Turbonetics turbo with a .96 housing. Steel headers from a company called Pony Down. The turbo was having too much back pressure and I realized it needed a larger turbo/housing. As of April 2011 it had run a best of 9.68 at like 142 on a 1.42 60 foot 20 PSI boost. I swapped turbo from the T4 76 Turbonetics to a T4 Precision 88 .96 and the car instantly picked up. At 16 PSI it ran 9.4 at 145. At 20 PSI it now has broken the 150 MPH barrier. And has now run 9.21 at 148.xx on a mid 1.4 60. Here is a temperature log from that 150 mph run.

It showed 118 degree's through the traps.

 

[Razor]

Now.. here comes the change. I didnt want to change anything except delete the IC. So we made a pipe from the turbo to the throttlebody. Same nozzle sizes where used. In this case I ran an M15 by the turbo and anM10 by the throttlebody. I also added an M5 pre-turbo. Figuring this should shore up all bases.

The result.. not spectacular. The temperature at 19 PSI was 170 degree's. And climbing. Not what I was expecting, but non-the-less data.



So where do I go from here.. thought is create a longer pipe to see what change happens when the air is given more time.

 

[Razor]

Last shot.. worth mentioning..

Here is a dyno pull on pump gas thought i'd share.. This is why I dont like using Dyno's for these tests. The pull is too short. Boost was 26 PSI and temp was decreasing not increasing. Power was 900 RWHP through an auto.

 

[Razor]

These are two video's of the car. One was in Jan of this year, the other in June,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLCtVYBWyns

Look how the car leaves.. It needed some suspension work. Still a low 6 sec 1/8 mile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4TJu7RdgJo&NR=1&feature=endscreen

Here is a 9.3ish run in June after new turbo went on.

 

[Dust]

Have you checked flow with a meter? I assume 100% meth right? You definitely should be dropping temps with that much meth flowing. How many temp sensors do you have? Right after the turbo and right before the TB would be interesting. Guessing the IAT is in the lower manifold right?

 

[Razor]

Have you checked flow with a meter? I assume 100% meth right? You definitely should be dropping temps with that much meth flowing. How many temp sensors do you have? Right after the turbo and right before the TB would be interesting. Guessing the IAT is in the lower manifold right?

The iat is inside the intake. I would guess 70 degrees ambient and 19 psi= 280 degrees approx. it is coming down to 170 so there is a drop. Pressure is at 120 psi on 30 gph worth of nozzle.
So it's a 110 degree drop but I was hoping for more.

I'll do some more testing next few weeks, time is an issue during the holidays
Julio

 

[Dust]

Would be interested to know how much difference there is with and without the pre-turbo. I know that there are a few threads on dsmtalk about meth without an IC.

 

[Scott Atk]

Very interesting Julio, Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to follow through but I was in the middle of doing the exact same test! I intended to do back to back dyno tests as well. My inlet temps with your standard dual nozzle kit dip down into the 50's. My theory was if I could delete the intercooler and do the same dual nozzle with 1 pre turbo and 1 pre throttle body and still keep the temps around 100, it would be worth it. I had the pipe fabbed up too. I was using the "big fatty" RJC cooler which weighs 50 lbs. so I was excited about the possibilities. Oh Well, Stuff happens.

 

[Scott Atk]

Julio, Obviously without data we're just guessing, but do you think your 50* increase is typical? In other words can I apply the same 50* increase to my above posted log? In that log if you move a few frames forward it actually dips into the high 40's. I figured if I removed the intercooler, spoolup would be dramatically increased and it would eliminate the possibility of the alky falling out of suspension (dreaded #1 burndown). Thoughts?

 

[Razor]

Julio, Obviously without data we're just guessing, but do you think your 50* increase is typical? In other words can I apply the same 50* increase to my above posted log? In that log if you move a few frames forward it actually dips into the high 40's. I figured if I removed the intercooler, spoolup would be dramatically increased and it would eliminate the possibility of the alky falling out of suspension (dreaded #1 burndown). Thoughts?

At 20 PSI you'll be way higher than 108(58+50) More like 165-170. If you wanted to heat up teh air a little, do a SLIC. That would solve pretty much any temp issue.

Now.. My buddy JD had Cyl 1 issue. 6 months ago he went to the Champion rails and external regulator.. whalla.. no more problems. Car ran 10.08 at 137 at BG TAI class.. Probably more than 100 runs since then. If the Cyl 1 is to be thought off.. then cyl2 would have just the same issue wouldnt it. Its not like your burning up cyl1 only. Now if your burning up 1 & 2 .. then we are talking.

Here is a thought.. I could use input.. what could you do to slow the air down through a pipe? If we could slow the air down, we could get the methanol to flash "better"

Thoughts?? Larger diameter pipe? Add ribbing to create turbulence? One of those "tornado deals"?

 

[Scott Atk]

I agree the #1 topic is up for debate. PM me if you want to know how I solved mine years ago. btw, I'm still using the stock fuel rail and stock location regulator.

I'm guessing that you think my car's inlet temps would rise 120* when yours only went up 52* because my log is at 25 psi whereas yours was 20? I wish I could have followed through with this test.

 

[Dust]

WHy not add a "chamber" that is bigger diameter and introduce the meth at the beginning of it flow wise?