Oiling system questions

[CTX-SLPR]

Many of ya'll know I'm doing quite a bit of custom trickery on my Turbo6 and its come time to start buying plumbing. The oil pump is a gerotor off of a Series II V6 that has the filter adapter removed and replaced with an adapter plate with 3/8" NPT ports for the to and from the filter aswell as 2 1/4" NPT gauge/Aux ports. I'm running an external twin filter setup, 1 disposable for the big stuff and 1 stainless mesh reusable for the tiny stuff, which as 1/2" NPT fittings for the in and out. 1 out goes back to the block through a 3/8" NPT fitting in the main oil gallery, I'm plugging the one on the filter adapter plate since the passage is welded shut, and the other runs to the turbo which has an AN -4 fitting. I will be running an external oil cooler with a thermostat on it aswell. Here's the first question, what size line should I run for the various different legs
Engine to filter (3/8 NPT - 1/2 NPT):
Filter to Thermostat (1/2 NPT - 1/2 NPT):
Thermostat to Cooler (1/2 NPT - -8 AN):
Cooler to Engine (-8 AN - 3/8 NPT):
Filter to Turbo (1/2 NPT - -4 AN):

Second question, this is more for the turbo guys; external regulator, should I run an external adjustable regulator to supply the turbo with oil?

Third Question, accumulator location, where should I put the accumulator in the system and with running synethic oil should I worry about prelubing the turbo anymore than lubing the engine. The turbo is water cooled and I will likely have a timer on the system to keep the car running after a hard run to keep from coking the bearings.

Final Question, is it worth messing with trying to fit a universal windage screen in substitute for a baffle, should I go for the baffle first and add a screen over the open section of the sump (its a center sump pan and very very shallow in places other than the sump to fit the steering linkage and crossmember), or is a baffle going to make most of the difference and the screen isn't worth it?

Thanks,

 

[turbofabricator]

WHEW?!?!...........Are you running at Bonneville? Silver State Classic? If not, then leave the entire oiling system nearly stock. What you are doing is ALOT of work and money. The stock oiling system is ALOT better than most give credit to. I have spent MANY hours trying to come up with a better oiling system, but was "reminded" by a good freind that the stock oiling system has performed FLAWLESSLY on 9 second race cars. So, now all I do is the normal timing cover mods, plug the filter bypass port, and run dual remote filters. I use -12AN hose to and from the filter. The oil cooler is also not needed if you run synthetic, unless you are running endurance. with that being said.......Nothing wrong with over-kill. I've been known to do a "little bit" of that.
-12AN is the recommened oil line size for everything except turbo. The accumulator is fine with -10AN. With all the work you are putting into it, you could have gone with a dry sump or an external Petersen pump. The oil pan could use a kick-out and a screen, but the full skirted block reduces the effectiveness of the kick-out/screen. A good baffle is a MUST. With-out a baffle, you WILL hurt a bearing. Concentrate on reducing oiling losses. Lifter bores, solid roller cam, re-drilled cam bearings, tight main clearances, modified timing cover, reduce bends in the oil lines, radius oil galleries in the block, enlarge oil galleries, re-clock oil feed hole for the cam bearing so that it is blocked (using re-drilled cam bearings) tap oil plugs in the front of the block...................

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Ok, I partially need the Series II pump assembly to clear the chassis since this is not a G-body, its a '64 Riviera. The other part is I don't like the spur gear system on the stock system with its multitude of 90º turns in it. This is kinda like a more complicated version of the Duttwieler system since it is an external feed and I am following most of what they do with the 3/8" NPT fitting in the former oil pressure sensor hole.
I want to run an oil cooler because Buick put one on the car and GM is not known to be extravegant with unneeded things like that. I know others run without them but I'll go for the insurance. This car will have 4 fluid coolers (coolant, oil, transmission fluid, and powersteering fluid) and 1 intercooler to be on the safeside. Why did you choose -12 line? I had planned on running -10 line since its 2 steps up from the 3/8" "critical" fittings on the block and pump and 1 step up from most of the rest of the fittings except the -10 O-ring fittings on the thermostat. This car is taking a huge amount of my money, time, and its something that has become a very personal expession of what I like about cars and what I want in them. I'm in overkill mode probably so it doesn't break because of oiling problems, or overheating, or something else. At 4000lbs this car is a lot heavier than a T-type so the engine will be working harder and more work means more heat and with a 4.1L block I don't want to overheat it as the head gaskets are already vulnerable enough. Throw in the fact that I'm getting a top of the line turbo and I don't want to take chances with oil.
I have TA dual groove teflon coated bearings for the cam in proper clocking and I am taping the front plug holes for screw in ones already machined down by TA to no block the gallery.

Does a dual ball bearing turbo run a different max oil pressure than the engine should?

 

[JDEstill]

Line sizes - I've been replumbing my external oil filter setup, and as part of that effort I ran some calcs. The stock GN pump is supposed to supply 10 gpm @ 4000 rpm. I thought the velocity and pressure drop in the stock 1/2" oil cooler lines was pretty darn high at 10 gpm, surprisingly high in fact. I think the only way GM got away with it is that the lines are so short. Even the pressure drop in a -10 line is not trivial at 10 gpm, though it's a lot better than the 1/2" stuff. That calc really made me appreciate how porting of the engine oil passages can have a positive effect, since the flow is really moving through there.

Anyway, with all that being said, I took the lead from the way my Turbosaver originally came, and plumbed everything with -10. Engineering-wise, it just made more sense than trying to do it with -8.

Now you are saying that the ports on your adapter are 3/8" NPT, and that seems really small to me. I don't know what the actual port size is on my Turbosaver adapter, but it has -10 fittings screwed into it, and visually it doesn't look like a big step down, so I'm going to bet they are 5/8", though they could be 1/2". If I was you I'd try to find an adapter with bigger ports.

If you want to run 1/2" line, that will probably work. The factory oil cooler lines are 1/2" after all. And if your oil filter connections are 1/2", then not having a bunch of adapters is a plus. But just be aware that it isn't very conservative. And if your gerotor pump flows more than the stock gear pump...

Your dual oil filters - sounds like you want to run them in series? That would scare me. You're just doubling the pressure drop. Dual filters are typically run in parallel.

Accumulator - I'd put it after the filters and not worry about having it supply the turbo too.

Regulator to turbo - certainly the way to go for a "gold plated" system I guess That would ensure the proper quantity of oil to the turbo while maximizing the amount of oil to the engine. Not sure that I'd go to the expense of it though. Instead of running a -4 to my turbo, I've decided to use the stock line and the stock brass block. Those two things will likely offer enough restriction to maximize oil flow to the engine itself, while still getting a sufficient flow to the turbo. Seemed like a simple and good answer to me.

John

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Line sizes - I've been replumbing my external oil filter setup, and as part of that effort I ran some calcs. The stock GN pump is supposed to supply 10 gpm @ 4000 rpm. I thought the velocity and pressure drop in the stock 1/2" oil cooler lines was pretty darn high at 10 gpm, surprisingly high in fact. I think the only way GM got away with it is that the lines are so short. Even the pressure drop in a -10 line is not trivial at 10 gpm, though it's a lot better than the 1/2" stuff. That calc really made me appreciate how porting of the engine oil passages can have a positive effect, since the flow is really moving through there.

Anyway, with all that being said, I took the lead from the way my Turbosaver originally came, and plumbed everything with -10. Engineering-wise, it just made more sense than trying to do it with -8.

Now you are saying that the ports on your adapter are 3/8" NPT, and that seems really small to me. I don't know what the actual port size is on my Turbosaver adapter, but it has -10 fittings screwed into it, and visually it doesn't look like a big step down, so I'm going to bet they are 5/8", though they could be 1/2". If I was you I'd try to find an adapter with bigger ports.

The ports are really defined for me by the hardware available. The adapter plate I can get is pre drilled for 3/8" NPT and while I could modify it bigger the port on the block can't get any bigger or it'll crack when you tighten the fitting into the bore and it heat cycles since the fitting will expand out and the block somewhat expand in.

If you want to run 1/2" line, that will probably work. The factory oil cooler lines are 1/2" after all. And if your oil filter connections are 1/2", then not having a bunch of adapters is a plus. But just be aware that it isn't very conservative. And if your gerotor pump flows more than the stock gear pump...

The gerotor should do better than the stock pump, or atleast I hope it does. I plan on running -10 lines unless someone can give me a reason not to that I feel is worth the expense of -12.

Your dual oil filters - sounds like you want to run them in series? That would scare me. You're just doubling the pressure drop. Dual filters are typically run in parallel.

The filters will be in parallel, its just 1 will be a spin on disposable and the other will be a billet aluminum and stainless steel piece that will be reusable, The idea is that the disposable will catch the big stuff in the paper and the stainless will provide the ultra-fine filtration that isn't as critical since the oil will naturally try to go through the freer flowing filter which ever it is.

Accumulator - I'd put it after the filters and not worry about having it supply the turbo too.

Regulator to turbo - certainly the way to go for a "gold plated" system I guess That would ensure the proper quantity of oil to the turbo while maximizing the amount of oil to the engine. Not sure that I'd go to the expense of it though. Instead of running a -4 to my turbo, I've decided to use the stock line and the stock brass block. Those two things will likely offer enough restriction to maximize oil flow to the engine itself, while still getting a sufficient flow to the turbo. Seemed like a simple and good answer to me.

John

The turbo is a dual ball bearing unit so the oil feed is a AN -4 fitting and corresponding some size drain which will also be an AN line. The idea here is that I won't need to compromise the oil pressure for either system in the name of the other. However since I'd love to save $100 on an external regulator if the difference is marginal, I'd delete this and save myself the regulator, fittings, and line costs.

Thanks for the discussion about this,