Olds small block rebuild ?'s

[olds443]

So I came across a deal on a 403 Olds. As the story goes, this was removed from a wrecked 78 Lesabre with 110k miles 10 years ago. Supposedly ran good at the time.
It has been in a garage covered for that time. The heads and intake have been removed, I have not pulled the pan yet. The cylinder walls look real nice don't appear to be worn or gouged , etc. I may want to just get it running on the cheap. If the bearings look good would it be a terrible idea to slap new bearings, gaskets etc in and run it? or being it's this far should I just have it blown all apart and have the machine shop clean and check everything?
What do you all think?

A) new seals, gaskets, bearings and see how it goes

B) All the above, plus machine shop

C) Full bore rebuild

 

[INEEDAGN]

Depends on budget and how long you plan to keep this engine running. Is it a local cruiser or will it be going on the power tour? How much HP are you wanting? compression?

The way to do it right is a full blown rebuild but if it's a daily driver type of car kept mostly stock you could half @ss it without too much issue. If it's going to be reaced and flung at high rpm then you need to do it right.

A buddy of mine has my 350 olds shortblock in his car right now. we yanked the heads and bolted on his ported #5s. When we looked at the cylinders we thought "hell they look fantastic, it ran before so lets not do the bottom end". That car uses so much oil he won't drive it. It embarrasses him. I told him he can keep the shortblock. LOL

need a set of #7 heads? They'll be cheap, but shipping is gonna suck.

 

[olds443]

Good advice.
The car will be a street car mostly driver, daily if needed to be but will probably never be a dedicated daily. Stock engine was a 307 so this alone is an upgrade. It also has to pass smog here in CA which is a visual and dyno check, so it can't be too wild.

 

[Mark E.]

Throw rings and bearings at it. Run a ball hone down the bores, gasket match the heads and intake, lap the valves, throw some valve seals and see how it goes.

All that is pretty low buck, and of course all labor is free....

 

[olds443]

Had a little time to look more into it this weekend. Pulled a few bearings and they look real good, not galled or scratched, reall smooth. The oil looked good other than being dark, there wasn't any metal or anything in it. The cylinder bores look reall good too.
If the heads weren't already off I would probably toss it back together but being I have to invest in new gaskets and it's all off already.....

 

[83hurstguy]

compression will be a measly 7.8:1 stock. Do what you can to boost compression and give it a bit more cam, and you'll be well rewarded. The stock heads have 80cc chambers and a 1.50 exhaust valve... terrible stock.

KB makes aftermarket flat top pistons that will bring the pistons up from being way down in the hole, but you end up having to overbore .024 and rebalancing... then you can use BB heads or the stock heads ported...

OR, you can get some compression by going to early 350 heads (5, 6, 7, 7a and possibly mill them a bit more) or #4 330 heads, along with an .028 thin head gasket. You can run that with a 204/214 or 214/224 cam (depending on your CR)... or if you go with an adjustable valvetrain, an Engle 210/216 (too much lift for stock rockers), you'll have a very mild sounding street motor with a ton of torque.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Has anyone ever made any decent power with one of those engines? Everyone I know shuns them.

 

[83hurstguy]

Has anyone ever made any decent power with one of those engines? Everyone I know shuns them.

I'm building one for my car right now... here's a few other builds...

pump gas 11 second car...
Realoldspower.com :: View topic - PUMP GAS 403 with a Q-JET= Got TORQUE???

a build on the cheap...
Realoldspower.com :: View topic - 83 H/O 12.14 20 MPG. UPDATE!

a bit more expensive...
Realoldspower.com :: View topic - 505TQ 490HP 403 Build

this one is really popular in the T/A world...
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24363

And then if you REALLY wanna get nuts...
Oldsmobile 403 Engine Build - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
They make very nice street engines.

 

[olds443]

HurstOldsGuy, thanks for the info.
I have been trying to register at Realoldspower but keep getting error msgs and can't sign on. I emailed the admin but no response.

This would be on somewhat of a budget so #5 Heads are sounding good so far. I also need to keep it on the mild side so it can pass smog.

Can I port the heads and still use the #5's with the AIR tubes installed?
Who burns chips for these?
I think with the right chip and keeping it mild it can be a good runner and still pass emissions.

BTW this is going in an 83 Hurst Olds. Current motor has a rod knock.

 

[83hurstguy]

HurstOldsGuy, thanks for the info.
I have been trying to register at Realoldspower but keep getting error msgs and can't sign on. I emailed the admin but no response.

This would be on somewhat of a budget so #5 Heads are sounding good so far. I also need to keep it on the mild side so it can pass smog.

Can I port the heads and still use the #5's with the AIR tubes installed?
Who burns chips for these?
I think with the right chip and keeping it mild it can be a good runner and still pass emissions.

BTW this is going in an 83 Hurst Olds. Current motor has a rod knock.

No prob. ROP has a lot of issues with the site... the admins individually approve members, so you will probably have to email them again.

You should be able to easily pass smog without the air injection, unless you get visually inspected. It would be nice if you could dump the computer as well. A regular quadrajet and vacuum distributor can run pretty much as clean when tuned right, and you'll be able to get the motor to perform much better.

If you gotta keep the computer, that's gonna be interesting... I'll have to let you know on that. There were a few people working on hacking the ECMs, but pretty much gave up in favor of going to Megasquirt.

You could port the heads with the air tubes installed... most of the porting is done in the bowls. Big valves (2.07/1.625) always help a ton.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Interesting links, most anyone I know will not mess with a 403 Olds....

 

[83hurstguy]

btw, nice looking car! Medium sand gray interior too! Same as mine

 

[83hurstguy]

Interesting links, most anyone I know will not mess with a 403 Olds....

no prob. why? There's a super stock guy spinning the stock bottom end to 8,000 rpm, and it hasn't let loose yet after several hundred passes

Yeah, a few have let loose, but most are getting really revved with heavy stock parts, or weren't balanced...

There are also halo's and full girdle's available for them... a lot of 12 second, very mild combos out there that were easy to build. Quite a few in the 11's now too. I know that's far from flying, but for a street car, it's pretty fun.

 

["Turbo-T"]

no prob. why? There's a super stock guy spinning the stock bottom end to 8,000 rpm, and it hasn't let loose yet after several hundred passes

Yeah, a few have let loose, but most are getting really revved with heavy stock parts, or weren't balanced...

There are also halo's and full girdle's available for them... a lot of 12 second, very mild combos out there that were easy to build. Quite a few in the 11's now too. I know that's far from flying, but for a street car, it's pretty fun.

I don't know, all I know is everyone who has owned a 78-79 G body Cutlass or a 77-78-79 Trans Am all talked badly about them.

I guess if you're going to build a 400 cube mill, go with a 400 Poncho engine or a 400 Chevy engine.

 

[olds443]

I am in Calefour I A so we have very strict smog with visual and treadmill. I will have to look into mega squirt but sure that will blow the budget idea.
The HO has 167k miles and looks better in the pics but I already have a lot of what it needs.

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

403s are the best street cruiser enging ever made. I had one with ported stock #4 heads, milled with thin gasket, forged pistons, balanced, ARP rod bolts and main studs. Came out to about 9.3:1 compression, and i ran a 268H cam. performer RPM intake, 750 holley, and a HEI. Car put down 390whp, but get this, 470ft-lbs. It had over 450+ft-lbs from 2100-4000rpm, and never went below 425ft-lbs. Had this in a 81 GP diesel, so all the accessories bolted right up. 2004r, with D5 2400 stall, and stock 7.5" rear with 2.29 gears.
This car got 33mpg on the highway, no joke. i think 60mph was like 1250rpm or something. And to my unbeleiveable suprise, i went to the stip and the rear held, and it ran 12.1x@115, i left off idle to save the rear. Build it a little, and make sure you get the exhaust faces on the heads surfaced, they like to blow out header gaskets if you dont, and its annoying.
Gary

 

["Turbo-T"]

This car got 33mpg on the highway, no joke.

I find that hard to believe.

 

[precizion818]

Olds 403

Hey, I was going to do the same exact swap myself. I got a hold of a 403 cheap on ebay, but have since sold the car. I had a Regal with a non turbo V6 that I swapped a Olds 307 (non HO, 1983), wasn't enough so I got the 403. Since then changed my mind and bought a turbo Regal and sold the non turbo Regal. I don't know if you heard of a guy named Chris in Lansing MI? The dude is sharp on all Olds engines, I am glad I had the opportunity to meet and talk to him. Drop him an e-mail he may be able to help you or give you some suggestions or a good deal (especially with head combo's).
My friend also has done the swap, but got rid of all his emmision (smog) equiptment. It was a similiar situation as yours, except against my advice he just dropped it in without ANY inspection . About a year after the swap, his car has been sitting since then (3 years ago). Ran pretty good for the year though, lot better then the 307!

Anyhow The Guys name is Chris check out www.442.COM and his e-mail is: rocketscience442@hotmail.com

Hope this may help!!!

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

I find that hard to believe.

Whats hard to beleive?
.67 overdrive 2004r
2.29 rear gear
25" tire
60mph-1200rpm
75mph-1450rpm
I mean the engine had more than enough TQ to pull those gears like that, and i am reall not kidding. My brother, who built the motor (i got it 2nd hand) had it in a 78 regal first. Same setup, but a TH350 and 2.56 gear. He consistantly got 26mpg with that car going to work and back every day. I bet you wouldnt beleive that ive gotten 29.xMPG with my TR either huh. Well i did, pretty much stock, turbo tweak chip, lean cruise mode, and a 28" tire. A really good tune up and exhaust and i got 26+mpg on every tank on the highway, and usually mid 27s. A little more info for ya, i pulled a car from TX to MN, with my TR. Both loaded as much as i could put in em. I scaled it when i got home, lets just say it was really close to 10,000lbs, total of 1270miles, and i STILL got 14.45mpg, and averaged a 72mph speed on the trip.
Gary

 

["Turbo-T"]

What's hard to believe is a V8 actually getting 33 mpg. The best I've ever heard is upper 20's with an overdrive gear, and that was a more modern, lighter V8 with fuel injection.

And then the same engine pulling a 12 second time 1/4 mile time, thru a quadrajet carb. Do you have a video of this?

Of course now my question is why don't more people build Olds 403 engines...???

I could believe your TR getting 29 mpg over a boat anchor getting 33's....

I can believe the 403 having some grunt as that's what they were designed for. They aren't much of an upper rpm engine to my understanding.

Learn something new everyday.....perhaps someone can give me a secret recipe of making a 307 Olds engine pull 11 second 1/4 mile times in a G body and manage to get 35 mpgs...???