Opinions needed. Broke a valve spring. Need a lil help. UPDATE 5/28/16

[TomD]

they really missed the boat on this one.you should deal with an engine builder that doesn't need you to tell them how to build a 3.8 v6.thats a lot of paper to drop for this kind of mistake.

I agree but we move a lil slower in south dakota... a lot slower.....

 

[Mr.Spool]

I agree but we move a lil slower in south dakota... a lot slower.....

understood

 

[turbo89]

Keep in mind the word expect is just that. Expect. I wouldn't expect them to eat it. I would expect them to correct it but not necessarily eat it. Has anyone received credit on any of the shitty Chinese crap that's on the market that needs hours and hours of work to drop in? If I buy a crank from XYZ vendor and it has tapered journals and flex plate flange is out of spec, and I ask if it will need a lot of metal added to the crank to balance with a .940" pin and they say no and it needs $200 worth of Mallory added to it do they eat that?

I would expect they EAT it .. the total cost of everything related to put a proper cam with the setup he has. Including all parts and labor. CLEARLY as evident with what has happened as well as the specs on that cam.. they have no idea of what they are doing with a Turbo Buick. They should be held accountable . It's no different than if they didn't check piston to valve clearance and he trashed the motor because of that.
They spec'd a cam that should have never been in that setup ... now when he calls them out the next time they take in a Turbo Buick motor they might actually consult with someone that knows the engines instead of building another SBC. Sorry ignorance is not a good excuse here.

The only thing you can question here is if they knew better.. which I am sure.. they didn't know better .... but that doesn't give them the OK just to GUESS and call it good. I am also sure they had no problem taking his 17K

As to your crank scenario I would say that would be on you as you took the cheap way out instead of going with a BMS unit that are double the cost from the start.

Simple when you measure the journals and flange and see its out of spec one would think you would STOP and call the vendor and say .. this thing is a POS and return it ... if you elect to invest hours and hours to true things up PLUS then add in the heavy metal .. well what can I say there is a sucker born every day. You can't tell me the vendor didn't see this before or that he didn't measure a crank with the defects..

The problem we have here is the guy wasn't being cheap ... clearly as he spent 17K on this setup .

For that amount of money not only should they replace the cam ... they should give him a new motor , install it, and build him a complete spare to have .
The problem today is that people are just willing to accept whatever a shop or vendor sells them ...

You see It on this board all the time !!!

 

[David Husek]

OK really great information, thanks a lot.

So best case scenario is I convince the shop to replace the cam on their dime.

Can you guys recommend a cam that will work better with my current setup?

IMO I would contact the shop and let them know that the cam they installed is a no go. If you put the faith of cam design in your builder, he should have done the homework, period. This is a HUGE mistake and was a simple online search or call to any turbo Buick vendor for the correct cam profile for the build. Any off the shelf comp grind would be a better choice. They have given you a time bomb of future broken parts. I have seen these kinds of issues too many times over the last 25 years from non turbo Buick shops and have helped many get the recipe correct. I will be more than happy to speak to them after your contact.

It would be great if they picked up the repair, but you may have to at least purchase the camshaft and let them install. It was there responsibility to provide you with the correct camshaft profile. You have given them a lot of money and stated you are a repeat customer. Hopefully they make it correct for you. If I can be of any assistance give me a call.

 

[Nick Micale]

When I shell out $17k for an engine, I want it to last longer than 3,000 miles.

DAMN, looks like I do not charge enough for our engines?

 

[David Husek]

DAMN, looks like I do not charge enough for our engines?

I was thinking the same thing.......

 

[Dreamn4GN]

Sorry to hear about this. Sounds like a nightmare. Specially after that kinda price tag. Do yourself a favor and relay EVERYTHING back to this thread or site the buikder says and or recommends etc. These guys will steer you in the right direction. Read way too many threads like this , one reason I'm glad I was on this forum reading for years before I purchased my own. Best of luck

 

[Jerryl]

Wait a second guys.
Some will and have argued that the engine is just an air pump and platform specific knowledge is not needed.
You guys suggesting it is? (Pun intended)

 

[t-typinator]

I don't think i would just put this motor back together without having the bottom end checked out.
They built the top end like a sbc , did they do the same with the bottom end ?

I would want all the" lower end tolerences " checked out to make sure they were not done to sbc specs,(Can't do that with the turbo 3.8 they need to be done to tr specifics)
What about ring gap, enough for a turbo motor ? etc. etc.
A LOT of turbo regal owners have payed the price for their builder's not knowing any better and building their turbo regal bottom end like a small block chevy, and knowing how this top end was built I would want to know EXACTLY how they built that bottom end before i spent a whole lot more time and money on this engine.
Sorry to hear about your problems, but i would highly suggest a turbo regal specialist be involved with this at some level before it all goes back together just to have something else fail,possibly with worse damage next time.
Did you get a build sheet with this motor showing all specs and tolerences ? If you did you may want to post it here so the guru's can look at how it was built and give some suggestions.
Do yourself a favor +
Check out that bottom end !!!!
If all checks out fine , you will have some piece of mind knowing it's done right,If you find it was not built right ,then you will save your self ALOT of headaches in the future.

 

[TomD]

OK gave them a call. They are gonna dig out all the info and email me a spec sheet so I'll post it when I get it. Might not be til Monday. I told them the cam might be too extreme and I wanted to compare my set up with some other turbo buick guys and go from there.

As far as what I spent. The cost adds up quicker than you think. I didn't want to skimp on any of the parts and I replaced everything but the block and I already had the heads. The parts alone were around 13k.


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[robzombie]

380.00 for hard block fill ???

Is this a street or race motor??

Also a lot of monetary corrections on that receipt.

 

[Mr.Spool]

 

[TomD]

380.00 for hard block fill ???

Is this a street or race motor??

Also a lot of monetary corrections on that receipt.

Mostly street. I was gonna take it to a drag strip at some point but it wasn't supposed to be a race only application.

 

[fastblackracing]

Fellow Buick Brother.........You need to get yourself hooked up with some of the people on here that can help you out.
I just took a fast glance at that receipt and all i can say is wow...you may have done previous business with that shop
but man....If I read that right there is like 700$ for oil pump and oil mods? You are being taken advantage of.

And I agree with Bison on the camshaft they chose for you....Not the right cam for your application. Heat had nothing to do with that failure and all of those springs need trashed at this point.
Take advantage of the offer he made you to put a proper cam package together for you so you can straighten some of this out.
Dave Husek is another go to guy that has offered up assistance......
Nick Micale is another Buick 4 life guy that would help you....

I can tell by the way that work ticket is written up that they are very proud of what they do and most likely they will not appreciate you coming in and telling them that your Internet buddies said they messed up on your build and therefore they need to make it right, But I for one will say that there are some very knowledgable and stand up guys on this site that will blow that places work out of the water any day of the week.
You may just have to suck it up and change directions at this point to get your situation straightened out.

I once tried to help a buick guy out that ended up spending over 10G's because of a bad coil pack and the shop he was dealing with mis-diagnosed the issue and ended up changing his cam, bent some valves then wiped a lobe off the cam and took out the crank bearings.

Then they had his crank welded up and ground assembled his motor for him with the wrong head gaskets. He finally had enough and came to me looking for some one to install his motor and after getting all the info from him I told him the gaskets are wrong and the crank needs thrown out..... but he was jammed up in a divorce and could not swing it and 3 months after we got the car running for him the crank broke and he was done.

Lost a 60 thousand mile car over a 80 dollar coil pack. It happens If you let the wrong people work on your Turbo-Regal.....I can not stress that point enough.

 

[TURBOELKY]

I just threw up my Starbucks looking at that receipt. Please send me $5 PayPal to my user name above @gmail.com. Thank you.

Really, sorry for your loss man.

 

[20psiofevil]

Looks like they nickel and dimed you to death! I really hate this for you buddy. I don't think for one instance that oil temp caused the spring to fail.
Do not let this shop bully you with a condescending tone. I hope they take care of this on their dime as I think they should. Good luck man!

 

[t-typinator]

Some informative reading on why you may want to look into how the short block was put together.(See link below)
MANY people have had their tr motors put together by otherwise very competent machine shops,(and some maybe not so competent)that just didn't know about the intricacies of this motor and as stated before built it like a sbc.
You may want to check that the tensioner was removed from the timing setup, if the billet timing chain listed in your receipt is a double roller.The article below explains this.
Also, i would want to know more about why the block was filled and how much was it filled.
It may not be a problem but i would want to know all i could about it before i put it back together.
It could potentially cause some overheating problems or at the very least run hotter then normal or cause hotter then normal oil temps.
It may be fine and not cause you any problems,but it definetly isn't neccesary for a somewhat mild street build.
The machine shop stated that they thought the spring broke from excess heat so i'm thinking their must be some signs of the motor running too hot .(not that i think that that is what caused the spring breakage ,I think that part was cleared up, when the wrong valvetrain choices were pointed out) but i'd be curious as to WHY they thought it was getting SO HOT it broke a valve spring.
Anyway here is a link to why not just any shop should build a tr motor.


http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/0207gmhtp-buick-turbo-v6-engine-build-bottom-end/

 

[TomD]

@fastblackracing @David Husek @bison @Nick Micale @turbo89 @Mr.Spool @t-typinator

Thanks for giving me some honest feedback.

@TURBOELKY

Your check is in the mail

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

@fastblackracing @David Husek @bison @Nick Micale @turbo89 @Mr.Spool @t-typinator

Thanks for giving me some honest feedback.

@TURBOELKY

Your check is in the mail

I have been reading this thread from the beginning. I'm am very sorry to hear how this is going for you.
Financially I know this may be difficult to get through. But if you choose to continue hot-rodding, don't give up on these cars. They are outstanding when done correctly.

Good luck.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

T-typinater, havent heard that name mentioned in quite a while,was once trying to buy a Merkle engine but could never get in touch with anyone. Always wondered what ever happened to him.