Paint advice

[Steve V]

Early 2009 had a complete strip and repaint on my Gn. I did all the stripping chemically and removed lots of items to save on labor. The dealership I worked at had a huge collision center, I had a friend and a 25% discount so I went for it. They did an amazing job in 3 weeks.

Fast forward to today. Car live a sheltered life and still looks great. I have a few small issue with the paint. On the top of the right side fender near the windshield and the antenna, something is under the paint. Very small and looks like tiny pimples.

On the header panel two small cracks in the meaty section of it have appeared in the paint.

On the LR of driver door under the rock guard is a pimple as well.

On the right side A pillar a few small pimple as well.

Car had no rust in these areas before repaint. PPG products where used.

Shop has lifetime guarantee on paint work. My friend said to bring it in. He says that it initially looks like "solvent pop" as far as the header well that's fiberglass and no warranty on that.

The PPG rep came out and looked at it and says it is rust under the paint. I asked how is that possible these panels had no rust before and it was stripped and prepped correctly....so I thought...

No warranty on anything per the rep.

Car looks great I am just wondering WTF happened. I did not prep it so IMO I feel it is still on them.

I can't get these issues to show in pics.

Opinions?

 

[Steve V]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/posts/2116279/

 

[Steve V]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/virginia-area/271893-merry-xmas-everyone-happy-new-years.html

 

[tbone87]

I deal with paint reps a lot and its never there fought its always someone done something wrong!!!!

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[Steve V]

I am having a tough time understanding with the so called rust, panels had no rust before car was stripped. Unless they waited too long after they roughed up the metal before epoxy priming it....I guess some microscopic rust could've been sealed over.....pisses me off.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

One of the biggest problems I see is not using a water based cleaner prior to priming/painting. Most people just use solvent. The oils from your skin is not solvent based, only water will remove it. I can almost bet this is the case. It will appear as tiny bubbles. Most people will think it is solvent pop, it is contamination. If it wasn't there when you picked the car up, it isn't solvent pop.

 

[Steve V]

One of the biggest problems I see is not using a water based cleaner prior to priming/painting. Most people just use solvent. The oils from your skin is not solvent based, only water will remove it. I can almost bet this is the case. It will appear as tiny bubbles. Most people will think it is solvent pop, it is contamination. If it wasn't there when you picked the car up, it isn't solvent pop.

I am not sure when it appeared but when cars was fresh it was not there.

My wife had a great idea, tell them to chemically strip it...if it is rust it should still be there...we pay for the repaint...if it's smooth with no rust its on them

 

[Steve V]

Filed a complaint with BBB we'll see if that gets some action.

 

[rmar]

One of the biggest problems I see is not using a water based cleaner prior to priming/painting. Most people just use solvent. The oils from your skin is not solvent based, only water will remove it. I can almost bet this is the case. It will appear as tiny bubbles. Most people will think it is solvent pop, it is contamination. If it wasn't there when you picked the car up, it isn't solvent pop.

Correct o wise one........!
Even peoples body chemistry can make the oils left harder to remove, some women at that time of the month,( no joke) can create long term failures. Depending on the prep/process.

 

[aminga]

Correct o wise one........!
some women at that time of the month,( no joke) can create long term failures.

In the paint or are we talking about deeper issues here.

 

[rmar]

In the paint or are we talking about deeper issues here.

Yes.

 

[3-5.0]

I remember reading years ago in a magazine that DIY home painters should not only use a prep solvent cleaner but first wipe with windex! to get finger prints off, I'm sure theres better pro products but backyarding was the name of the game there. Anyways regarding the finger print/ oil contamination thing the first time I went to a reputable autobody supplies place they made sure I had the correct prep solvents and even a anti rust product that you spray on before any primer. I know its all extra sales but I was told that even if a bare panel sits for a bit it is contaminated and will show up if you live in a region where humidity fluctuates heavily.

 

[hiboom]

That is the sole reason I won't use chemical stripper any more even when preped it seems some how a little will remain and cause paint problems like the one your having the epoxy primer probley t


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[hiboom]

Left it in check a little longer mite not be the case in your situation but have seen it a dozen times over the last 30 years even had some blow out when washing a car after painting and ate the paint rite off


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[Steve V]

Just a little update....my complaint with the BBB has worked its way up the chain of command. Received a phone call today and they want me to bring the car back and look it over with me. They want to stick a pin in the spots and see what happens. I explained I very easily do that myself. So I did tonite and yup it is rust. On the top surface behind power antenna.

 

[Amab145]

Let me disclose right from the beginning here, I am a paint sales/tech rep for a major paint manufacturer. I'm just going to give you my opinion from what I see on a daily basis..


IMO there are so many variables when repainting a 25yr old plus car. Quite often, when panels rust on a car, they rust from the inside out depending on the location, such as wheel openings etc. it's very possible there was rust there when it went into the shop just on the backside of the panel that no one ever noticed.

Also, in the future, unless you don't have any other option, try and stay away from chemical stripping. The millage (thickness) of paint on these cars, as well as new cars which is even less now than in the past, isn't enough to require chemically stripping something unless it has 3 or 4 layers on it. You're probably better off dry sanding it off.

One thing you should try and have them check, especially the paint rep, since it was stripped back to bare metal, is the overall thickness of the whole finish using a digital mil gauge. Each product requires a minimum thickness to work properly, and each product also lists a maximum thickness before failure can happen. The majority of the time, the dry millage of the product isn't enough, which would lead to poor corrosion protection and durability. Rarely, too much product is applied, which will cause things like cracking or die-back, none of which are issues you are seeing.

From what you are describing, it isn't solvent pop at all. It leads me to believe the bare metal surface was left exposed, uncoated, for an extended amount of time causing this issue. One last thing that will cause this microscopic rust is the amount of moisture in the air lines. If you have contaminated air; it will introduce moisture into the paint as well as even when blowing the car off with a blow gun.

Hope it helps! Definitely not your fault though, unless it was rusting from the backside of the panel and no one knew it

 

[Steve V]

Let me disclose right from the beginning here, I am a paint sales/tech rep for a major paint manufacturer. I'm just going to give you my opinion from what I see on a daily basis..


IMO there are so many variables when repainting a 25yr old plus car. Quite often, when panels rust on a car, they rust from the inside out depending on the location, such as wheel openings etc. it's very possible there was rust there when it went into the shop just on the backside of the panel that no one ever noticed.

Also, in the future, unless you don't have any other option, try and stay away from chemical stripping. The millage (thickness) of paint on these cars, as well as new cars which is even less now than in the past, isn't enough to require chemically stripping something unless it has 3 or 4 layers on it. You're probably better off dry sanding it off.

One thing you should try and have them check, especially the paint rep, since it was stripped back to bare metal, is the overall thickness of the whole finish using a digital mil gauge. Each product requires a minimum thickness to work properly, and each product also lists a maximum thickness before failure can happen. The majority of the time, the dry millage of the product isn't enough, which would lead to poor corrosion protection and durability. Rarely, too much product is applied, which will cause things like cracking or die-back, none of which are issues you are seeing.

From what you are describing, it isn't solvent pop at all. It leads me to believe the bare metal surface was left exposed, uncoated, for an extended amount of time causing this issue. One last thing that will cause this microscopic rust is the amount of moisture in the air lines. If you have contaminated air; it will introduce moisture into the paint as well as even when blowing the car off with a blow gun.

Hope it helps! Definitely not your fault though, unless it was rusting from the backside of the panel and no one knew it

WOW what a great response.

The panel is not rusting from the backside as we checked that when it was in the shop about a month ago.

I stripped the car myself in my garage, then drove it to the shop. It probably took me 2 weeks to strip it entirely it sat in my garage in bare metal during the process.

I was told the chemical stripper has a rust preventative that it will leave behind and must be washed off before priming. Since this I have had others tell me this is not correct.