People who know things about HDTV

[turbojimmy]

I have a question (or a few maybe).

First, my never-ending basement project is coming to a close. I may even be able to get the GN to the track this year!

I took delivery of a Sony 57" HDTV (a WV600) yesterday. Picture is awesome, analog signal over the cable feed is a bit grainy but the cable guy tells me it's the twist on ends I used. Could be, but the digital channels are great. I'll have to replace them at some point. When I first wheeled the TV into position, it looked smallish in the 30 x 14 room, but once the furniture got into place it was fine - the "2x screen size" as a minimum distance advice is good. The next step up - a 65" - would have been overwhelming. I get dizzy watching this thing.

DVDs are crystal clear but they don't use the full screen even when I use the DVD menu to select "wide screen". But it's not a horizontal problem - it's vertical. I'm smart enough to tell the TV to use "full" mode, which is the full 16:9 aspect ratio, but there are bars at the top and bottom. The size of the bars vary with the DVD (actually vary with the AGE of the DVD). The Matrix for example, was very thin and wide. Monsters Inc. was nearly perfect, but still had thin bars at the top and bottom. Could it be because I'm using the analog RCA connections? The DVD player is an older Sony, and a bottom of the line Sony at that. It does not have composite video jacks but does have an S-Video jack. Will using the S-video output fix this? Or should I spring for a DVD player with composite video feeds (I'll do that only if it fixes this "problem" - otherwise the picture is great).

I thought I was pretty savvy on this stuff but this new TV is making me feel stupid. It turns out that all this time my 4-year old Sony amp (STR-DE825) has not been doing Dolby 5.1 - only Dolby 3/2. Every time I put a DVD in it would switch to 3/2 decoding and shut off the sub. The blue "Digital Decoding Light" would come on so I ASSumed it was doing things optimally. The Infinity towers were doing a great job so I didn't notice. Yesterday I bypassed the decoding in the amp and forced it to "Normal Surround" which leaves the sub on. Holy bejesus - all this time I though my sub sucked - turns out it hasn't been turned on. What a dope.

Anyhow, thanks for any tips.

Jim

 

[Bens87tr]

Does the picture looked stretched? Some DVDs use different aspect ratios. There is no set standard for the industry to use. A movie screen isn't 16:9, it's wider. Therefore, to get that whole picture on a TV screen (even a widescreen) thay have to use black bars on the top and bottom.

Next thing is you probably need a new DVD player. I'd recommend a progressive scan hooked up with a component connection. This way it will automatically adjust the black bars to the correct ratio. Almost all new DVDs are called "anamorphic" which I believe tells your DVD player what size black bars to display on a 16:9 TV. Your current player may not be doing this.

 

[NastyGn]

Hey Jim

There is a magazine that has been very helpful to me with all the new TV's and suround sound systems.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/

They also have a BB that you can ask the experts

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/index.php

I hope that helps. It's funny I had the same problem with my suround sound system as you until I had to reroute some wires and ended up redoing the whole system and got the manual out.

After having my Yahaha system for about a year and thought it sounded great, it got wired up right..... Boy what a difference.

Good Luck

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by Bens87tr
Does the picture looked stretched? Some DVDs use different aspect ratios. There is no set standard for the industry to use. A movie screen isn't 16:9, it's wider. Therefore, to get that whole picture on a TV screen (even a widescreen) thay have to use black bars on the top and bottom.

Next thing is you probably need a new DVD player. I'd recommend a progressive scan hooked up with a component connection. This way it will automatically adjust the black bars to the correct ratio. Almost all new DVDs are called "anamorphic" which I believe tells your DVD player what size black bars to display on a 16:9 TV. Your current player may not be doing this.

Picture doesn't look stretched if I tell the DVD to use "widescreen". Broadcast TV looks stretched, of course, because it is (except for HDTV broadcasts which are great).

I do need a progressive scan DVD player, and one that will do Dolby 5.1. Which would mean a new receiver that will switch composite video sources AND do Dolby 5.1. I prewired the basement for 7.1, so then I'd have to buy the speakers for 7.1 'cause there's no sense in buying a new receiver with just 5.1.....it goes on and on. I think I'll start with a progressive scan DVD - they've gotten really inexpensive (relatively speaking) and switch all the video through the TV. I can do without true 5.1 for now - my old amp does a good job of faking it.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by NastyGn
Hey Jim

There is a magazine that has been very helpful to me with all the new TV's and suround sound systems.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/

They also have a BB that you can ask the experts

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/index.php

I hope that helps. It's funny I had the same problem with my suround sound system as you until I had to reroute some wires and ended up redoing the whole system and got the manual out.

After having my Yahaha system for about a year and thought it sounded great, it got wired up right..... Boy what a difference.

Good Luck

Thanks for the links.

I thought the bass was kind of weak (it's been like that for 4 years!). I kept turning the sub level up via the amp and had myself convinced that that was working. The sub has been shut off every time I put a DVD in. It wasn't 'til I moved everything downstairs until I realized what was going on.

The sub on the concrete (carpet covered) floor and lower basement ceilings really forces it to pack a punch.

Jim

 

[Two Lane]

SUBMITTED FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

Is the TV HDTV-ready (built-in HDTV receiver) OR is it HDTV-capable (have to add a HDTV receiver)?

Definitely make sure the new DVD player has Progressive Scan.

Sounds like a great unit...XBR series?

HTH

 

[turbojimmy]

Re: SUBMITTED FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

Originally posted by Two Lane
Is the TV HDTV-ready (built-in HDTV receiver) OR is it HDTV-capable (have to add a HDTV receiver)?

Definitely make sure the new DVD player has Progressive Scan.

Sounds like a great unit...XBR series?

HTH

It's an HDTV "monitor" which means I need to add an HDTV receiver. However, the cable company rents one to me for $3.40 a month. I couldn't see spending the extra money for a built-in tuner when there isn't much that's HD right now. The cable company give me HBO, Showtime, MSG, Fox Sports, CBS, FOX, and PBS in HD. They keep adding more, too.

I'm not sure if Sony puts the "XBR" designation on their rear projection TVs. It's a 1080i "Hi Scan" - seems really nice, but I don't really have anything to compare it to. People who have compared the Sony to the same size Hitachi seem to like the Hitachi better, but everything else I have is Sony so I went with the Sony (the Hitachi was a bit more $ too). The WV (vs. WS) is supposedly the higher end Sony. Maybe I'm too easy to please 'cause I'm moving from a 12-year old Sears LXI 27" TV but this thing looks awesome. I'm not sure how you could improve the picture. It was easy to set up and program, too. Just plug it in and sit back.

Jim

 

[Two Lane]

Re: Re: SUBMITTED FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

Originally posted by turbojimmy


I'm not sure if Sony puts the "XBR" designation on their rear projection TVs.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...e=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_XBR&Dept=tv

Apparently only 2 rear-projection sets get the XBR designation.

Serious $$.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You've got a very nice model! Enjoy!!

 

[turbojimmy]

Re: Re: Re: SUBMITTED FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION

Originally posted by Two Lane
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...e=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_XBR&Dept=tv

Apparently only 2 rear-projection sets get the XBR designation.

Serious $$.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
You've got a very nice model! Enjoy!!

I saw those - they're LCD projection. I guess that's how they get to wear the XBR and Wega badges. Panasonic makes an LCD projection TV that Consumer Reports rated the best picture by far of all models they tested. It was about the same price as the Sony I bought, but it's a lot smaller. After the Panasonic, CR had Sony and Hitachi pretty much tied as far as picture quality.

Jim

 

[Reggie West]

You need a progressive scan DVD player to really bring out the resolution on the discs.

The letterbox screen will vary from disc to disc.

Get a DVD player that has a fiber optic output on it.

The 1080 designation you have on the TV means that it can play up to 1080 dpi signal correctly and that is what a DVD players resolution is so you would be maximizing the combo of the two.

Make sure your receiver has fiber optic inputs and outputs too. Run everything through that and then you will also get a DTS signal out to the speakers.

 

[Bens87tr]

More information than you need to know. Be careful though, you may spend a lot of time reading posts.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/html/index.php

 

[Buick From Hell]

I have...err, my wife has a 65" Mitsubishi HDTV. Haven't seen an HD picture on it yet, since there's not enough channels to warrant the cost...

But as for the aspect ratio's & widescreen settings & such, I'm learning! The typical ratio's I've seen are 2.35:1, 1.85:1 and 16:9 (same as the TV, which is 1.78:1). With any picture other than 16:9, you'll still have black bars. You SHOULD be able to "fix" that, but you'll lose some of the picture doing it!

My TV has the following settings:
"normal" for plain old TV in 4.5:5 size,
"standard"--this fills the screen side-to-side, regardless of pic height. So, it equally stretches 4.5:5 "normal" broadcasts...
"stretched"--this is designed for watching "normal" pictures, what it does is keeps the center 1/3 of the picture NOT stretched, so the main subject matter appears more "normal"...(a little weird to get used to)
"zoom"--This takes whatever picture is on the screen and zooms all 4 sides equally. This mode is designed to exactly fill the black bars of a 2.35:1 ratio picture. Makes the picture bigger, but you loose the same amount of HORIZONTAL picture that you gained VERTICALLY.
"expand"--this expands ONLY the picture VERTICALLY ONLY, it's mainly designed to fill the screen from 1.85:1 pictures, or the "widescreen" broadcasts of "Six Feet Under" or "The Sopranos" (for example)

That's about all I know!

 

[turbojimmy]

Thanks for the replies. I think I'm getting the hang of it. It's taking a lot of sitting around drinking beer and eating pretzels, though.

The Sony has the same settings, just called different things. Full, normal, wide, and wide zoom. I don't see anything like the "expand" mode, though.

Because I'm using the composite inputs from the digital cable box, the TV forces me to "full" mode. The cable box stretches it so I don't have black bars, but I don't like their stretch - I lose some vibrance in the color and it's a bit grainy. The TV does a much better job with the stretching/zooming. I prefer the wide zoom, but I have to switch to another non-composite input to see that (the one for the TiVO, which is basic cable).

The cable company gives me an HDTV box with the digital cable for no extra charge (same cost as the non-HD box). With that you get whatever channels broadcast in HDTV. The Giants/Skins game is being broadcast right now in HDTV by FOX. I'm not really a sports fan but I'm sitting here watching it because I've never seen TV like this - even in the store.

I did get the GN out for a bit today, too - and the alternator quit

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Got a Progressive Scan DVD player today. Wow what a difference. It's Sony's cheapest 5 disc changer that still has the progressive scan (665P) but it does the job. It allows me to tell it the default audio (dolby digital, optical output) and the default screen size (16:9, high def). The difference between component and composite video is awesome.

My old amp IS doing 5.1, I was just to stupid to understand the settings. I'm glad I didn't spring for a new one (though 7.1 would be cool since I pre-wired for it). When it goes to 5.1 the digital decoding light turns on and the "subwoofer" light goes out BUT the "LFE" meter turns on. LFE, evidently, is Low Frequency Effect - which I had turned way down. I also had the "Dynamic Range Compression", which mutes the sub among other things, turned UP. I turned the LFE up and the DRC off and now it's fine. Sometimes it pays to read the instructions.

Thanks for the tips. I think I'm happy with this setup.....for now (it's like the GN - it could always be a little better with a little more cash).

Jim

 

[TurboJim]

Originally posted by turbojimmy
I have a question (or a few maybe).

First, my never-ending basement project is coming to a close. I may even be able to get the GN to the track this year!

I took delivery of a Sony 57" HDTV (a WV600) yesterday. Picture is awesome, analog signal over the cable feed is a bit grainy but the cable guy tells me it's the twist on ends I used. Could be, but the digital channels are great. I'll have to replace them at some point. When I first wheeled the TV into position, it looked smallish in the 30 x 14 room, but once the furniture got into place it was fine - the "2x screen size" as a minimum distance advice is good. The next step up - a 65" - would have been overwhelming. I get dizzy watching this thing.

Hate to say it but I hope you have good luck with that set. You shoulda come over to talk HD with me, I did a LOT of investigation on the subject and got a Mitsu 55511 set. All I read about, and witnessed, is the Sony picture detiorates rather fast. ie: demos on the floor all of them were similarly green after a few months. Yes I know yours wont be on for 3 months straight, but that does give you an idea of what to expect,

DVDs are crystal clear but they don't use the full screen even when I use the DVD menu to select "wide screen". But it's not a horizontal problem - it's vertical. I'm smart enough to tell the TV to use "full" mode, which is the full 16:9 aspect ratio, but there are bars at the top and bottom. The size of the bars vary with the DVD (actually vary with the AGE of the DVD). The Matrix for example, was very thin and wide. Monsters Inc. was nearly perfect, but still had thin bars at the top and bottom. Could it be because I'm using the analog RCA connections? The DVD player is an older Sony, and a bottom of the line Sony at that. It does not have composite video jacks but does have an S-Video jack. Will using the S-video output fix this? Or should I spring for a DVD player with composite video feeds (I'll do that only if it fixes this "problem" - otherwise the picture is great).

You need a player the does 16:9. Normal, or older players only do 4:3 so despite playing a widescreen version of a movie, the player is limiting the screen size. If its a newer player, take the dvd out and go into the players setup menu and see if you can cheange the desplay from 4:3 to 16:9. BTW, does your dvd player do 480p or 720pi? If so, use the component out. I dont think the std video out does progressive scan, so, although you THINK the picture is good now, you wont believe how ****ty it in fact is, until you've seen a hi res pic in progressive scan. Try Monsters Inc or Ice Age in 480p...its amazing. (If you cant view this way, stop by, I'll show you how it is supposed to look )

To summarize, take any DVD out of the player (typically you cant get to the PLAYER setup menu with a disc in it), and go into the players setup menu, find aspect ratio, and change it to 16:9, then find the image type and change it to 480p (if your TV does 720..many dont, change it to that for even better pic quality)

I thought I was pretty savvy on this stuff but this new TV is making me feel stupid. It turns out that all this time my 4-year old Sony amp (STR-DE825) has not been doing Dolby 5.1 - only Dolby 3/2. Every time I put a DVD in it would switch to 3/2 decoding and shut off the sub. The blue "Digital Decoding Light" would come on so I ASSumed it was doing things optimally. The Infinity towers were doing a great job so I didn't notice. Yesterday I bypassed the decoding in the amp and forced it to "Normal Surround" which leaves the sub on. Holy bejesus - all this time I though my sub sucked - turns out it hasn't been turned on. What a dope.

Anyhow, thanks for any tips.

Actually, you were right the first time. You are using enhances surround if you dont have 3/2 displayed. The problem is, you need to find the DD 5.1 audio by jugging thri the movie menus in many cases. If the receiver was in 5.1, but the player was playing the wrong soundtrack, it would do as you describe. You need to go into audio setup, or languages in the move youre watching, and change to DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 THEN your sub will work and you'll have 5 discrete channels. (I am assuming you're using the optical or coax outputs on your DVD player right? If not, you wont get proper DD decoding, which may be another reson you werent getting the whole soundtrack properly

IN addition to Neals suggestions, you should join hometheaterspot.com's board. Donate the $20 bucks to become a supporting member. After that, you're entitled to a whole extra amount of info on the site, pertaining to tweaking your TV/sound system. Its about the best $20 you'll spend. Also, I have the AVia test DVD if you need it, so dont buy it unless you need a copy to keep.

Make sure you do a 100+ point convergence on your set to get all the guns aimed properly, and set the colors using this test DVD and you'll be amazed how much BETTER the set can look. After the set burns in for a few months, have it calibrated by an ISF calibrator and it may look even BETTER. I havent had mine done, because to be honest, my father in law had his done and I wasnt impressed with the difference. Although Joo Midolo here had his done and he said it was a night and day difference. I dunno, my set is outstanding, and after playing in the sesrvice menus I dont have the "red push" that is typical of the mitsu sets. SO I am not gonna have the set calibrated just yet myself.

Oh man, I could go on and on with this stuff. If ya wanna get together for some "bench watching" lemme know. I love this stuff almost as much as TR's

<edit> Oops, I see you got it set up now.

BTW, Optonline's digital service broacasts 4 channels in HD. 310 is HBO-HD, 330 is SHO-HD, 146 is MSG-HD and 147 is another one, I forget the name. You'll haveta get with them for a HD box. Its no additional charge. Its a SA 4200HD box. Does your set have a tuner built in? If so, get a UHF antenna to pick the OTA channels. Chan 2 is awesome. 5 and 9 are OK at times, but most of the time 9 just stretches the pic to 16:9. Chan 5 does some HD, but not much. Chan 2's primetime is all in HD 16:9. CSI is outstanding in HD. 7 is not online as of yet, but was supposed to come on in AUg. Go to antennaweb.org and punch in yer zip code to see what channels are availavle, and the recommended antenna type you'll need.

<edit-2> JEEEZZ!!! I should read a thread completely before replying. Nevermind my whole reply :-P

But beer and pretzels sounds good! Too bad its 8am or I'd be cracking one open myself!

 

[turbojimmy]

Re: Re: People who know things about HDTV

Originally posted by TurboJim
<edit-2> JEEEZZ!!! I should read a thread completely before replying. Nevermind my whole reply :-P

But beer and pretzels sounds good! Too bad its 8am or I'd be cracking one open myself! [/B]

Yeah, I have to wait until at least 9am.

We could do some bench watching - here or there. I think I got it pretty much set up now. I hope Sony has done something different to fix the problems you describe - I'll have to buy an extended warranty I think.

My brother is picking up an abandoned 114k mile '87 T within the next couple of weeks. It doesn't run. We could combine your love of TRs AND TV into one fun-filled afternoon one of these days.....

Jim