Please Educate Me On Brakes...

[~JM~]

Looks like my Powermaster is taking a dump again. The P/O had replaced both the PM & the accumulator not to long ago. I've been reading posts & it seems like my choices are to replace what I have, or convert to either vacuum or hydro assist. I don't think I want to replace the Powermaster again & I'm leaning to converting to something more reliable. I don't know whether to convert to vacuum or to go with the hydro. Could you'all educate me on the pro's & cons of each?

Thank you
~JM~

 

[charlief1]

Since the car is stock the least expensive and easiest is the vacuum unit. It will give you plenty of stopping power and the best bang for the buck, so to speak. If you decide to do mods to the car which will lower engine vacuum then I'd say to do the hydroboost system. More expensive and takes longer to instal but it will give you better brakes in the end if everything is working right. Go to the how to section and there's a really good write up on how to do the hydro conversion so you have an idea of what's involved.

 

[818GN]

Just converted to Vacuum from PM myself.

Vacuum ran me about $160 with all new parts and a warranty from O'reillys.

I was quoted $250 for a used complete Hydroboost setup.

Hope that helps.

 

[~JM~]

I've seen this How-To on Hydro Assist http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/how-tos/307690-powermaster-hydroboost-conversion.html

I have yet to find one on Vacuum Assist.

Thanks
~JM~

 

[azbob]

This will help.
Vacuum Brake Install

 

[RIFF RAFF]

i've seen this how-to on hydro assist http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/how-tos/307690-powermaster-hydroboost-conversion.html

i have yet to find one on vacuum assist.

Thanks
~jm~

because vacume brakes take no brain power to change .. Hydro boost. Dont blow an power steering hose

 

[~JM~]

O.K. So what are the negatives associated with the conversion to vacuum assist?

Is a new brake pedal mandatory or can the original pedal be modified to work properly?

~JM~

 

[scot w.]

O.K. So what are the negatives associated with the conversion to vacuum assist?

Is a new brake pedal mandatory or can the original pedal be modified to work properly?

~JM~

I have the vacuum conversion and have no negatives to say about it...

I guess you could drill a new hole in your existing peddle and reuse it but to me it is easier to just replace it with the correct peddle for the master cylinder since you will have the OEM peddle off to drill it anyways..

X2 On what Charlie already pointed out but let me also add the Vacuum brake set up from a 85-87 Monte Carlo SS has a 15/16" bore size which makes this set up Great for up grading to BAER brakes in the future as they recommend a 15/16'' bore for optimum performance for their brakes.

Here is a short video of my car with a Vacuum brake conversion and BAER brakes, I will let you judge be the judge!

[video=youtube_share;FMu6_YqtDZ0]http://youtu.be/FMu6_YqtDZ0[/video]

 

[1quick6]

I assume your replacement PM is a Cardone unit. Don't those have a lifetime warranty? If so, I'd be inclined to get a no-charge replacement under warranty if you can. That's certainly the least cost. As mentioned, vacuum is your lowest cost alternative and is quite easy to install if you get the right pedal from a mid 80's G-body with vacuum brakes. They are easily had at any junk yard.

The thing about hydroboost is that yes, you can install a unit for a 1984 TR without much fuss, but you have to realize it will be more money than vacuum and lack an accumulator. If you lose power steering, your brakes immediately have no assist. You can overcome this by adapting an Astro van HB unit which has an accumulator but that takes takes some skills. You can also go totally aftermarket with a turn key system for quite a bit more money.

It sounds to me like you want to stay simple, so go with vacuum. On a mostly stock car like you have, that would be a quick and cheap way to go!

 

[scot w.]

I assume your replacement PM is a Cardone unit. Don't those have a lifetime warranty? If so, I'd be inclined to get a no-charge replacement under warranty if you can.

Food for thought, I had a friend very recently who had a P/M cardone unit with the warranty so he took it back in hopes for a new replacement and he was told they no longer have those for replacements because they are discontinued. So the parts store ended up giving him a full refund!

Then the Original Poster can just take that money and put it towards a Vacuum set up. To the OP here are the details on mine.....> http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/br...els/257353-vacuum-brake-conversion-costs.html


Scot W.

 

[~JM~]

I don't have a receipt for the Power-Master or know where it was purchased from. It would be nice to return it. It looks to be about 3-4 years old.

Thanks
~JM~

 

[usetaboost]

I'd spend the extra and do hydroboost. How often do you blow a ps hose, really? I've driven some real piles back in the day and not once did I ever have one blow. If you are worried about your car dying and not having brakes, you shouldn't be driving your car if you are worried about it dying on you.

 

[1quick6]

I'd spend the extra and do hydroboost. How often do you blow a ps hose, really? I've driven some real piles back in the day and not once did I ever have one blow. If you are worried about your car dying and not having brakes, you shouldn't be driving your car if you are worried about it dying on you.

Good point.

I will say this. My car has an otherwise stock braking system that was in good working order and just a simple switch from PM to hydroboost made me feel like I didn't need to do anything else. I was that happy with the performance. If I was doing it over again, I would probably ditch the 1984 cast iron master cylinder in favor of an '81 Caddy Eldorado unit with a plastic reservoir.

 

[usetaboost]

I didn't even know about the plastic reservior. I'll have to keep that in mind for when others do the swap.

 

[~JM~]

Anyone know why the factory switched from Hydroboost ('84 & '85) to the Power-Master to begin with?

What system works the best at the starting line when you are trying to build boost against the brakes?

Thank you
~JM~

 

[charlief1]

Weight which equated to gas mileage.

 

[usetaboost]

Yeah like that **** ass pm weighs much less. If it was that big of an issue they would have used aluminum supports on all tr's. I think it was more of a cost issue.

 

[need boost]

swapped to hydroboost a while back, worth every penny ! Take a little to get used to as the brake pedal is a lot harder but when you hit it now, WOE NELLIE will throw you thur the windshield !