Ported Stock Heads.

[motorhead]

I am looking to upgrade the stock heads (the cam too... but that is another post post heads) on my T next year.

What are my options in terms of flow (mostly interested in exhaust side flow. Because all I care about is spool and maximizing my ported stock turbo), good valves (want: 1.77s), machine work, etc on a set of stockers?

I am interested in port velocity (especially when NOT under boost) and swirl. Any one can open something upto its absolute limit, but it won't be effiecent. Basically, I am looking for a competent head porter.

Are polished combusion chambers a normal request?

No need to ship them to Canada... I have a bud in MI to hold them for me.

(Yes, I have done a search, but most threads are only interested in flow numbers and not effiecency.)

Thanks,

 

[Intercooler]

You need to do some searches bud. We are forced induction which some of the principles you speak of don't translate.

 

[TRBON8R]

Talk to Nick Micale. He will hook you up.

 

[gmturbo]

Mike, a good set of ported heads will not hurt port velocity
you will see significant gains in mid to top end with no down sides
don't hesitate...do it bud

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by Intercooler
You need to do some searches bud. We are forced induction which some of the principles you speak of don't translate.

Okay, maybe you missed my point. I was looking for off boost performance. You see there are two sides to these engine:

!!!BOOST!!!

and

:::no boost:::

And, where do most of us spend the day driving: no boost. And it is quite easily maintained that this is where a poorly ported/over sized runner will destroy the effiecency of the engine.

And I already approached you on getting some heads done... and got no response. Can you help, Intercooler?

So: Is it normal to have the CC polished?

 

[The Radius Kid]

Porting won't necessarily hurt off boost performance,if it's done right.The engine will breath easier with the ported heads,lowering pumping losses and inherent efficiency.It has even been shown to lower emissions[strange as that may sound].
The stock G/N heads were not designed to be especially efficient.There were better designs later on[Turbo T/A],but if you work with them,they can be made to work rather well.The combustion chambers get polished to reduce the chances of detonation under higher boost/HP levels due to hot spots.
*Maybe some of you knowledgeable guys out there can clue me in as to who makes the oversized stainless valves these days?I would appreciate it.

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
Porting won't necessarily hurt off boost performance,if it's done right.The engine will breath easier with the ported heads,lowering pumping losses and inherent efficiency.It has even been shown to lower emissions[strange as that may sound].
The stock G/N heads were not designed to be especially efficient.There were better designs later on[Turbo T/A],but if you work with them,they can be made to work rather well.The combustion chambers get polished to reduce the chances of detonation under higher boost/HP levels due to hot spots.
*Maybe some of you knowledgeable guys out there can clue me in as to who makes the oversized stainless valves these days?I would appreciate it.

Ah, but to go hog wild... can leave you in the bushes... <- No idea where that came from.

But, like we discussed Radius' I am looking to maximize my off boost (apexing out of a corner) performance, that will give me a quick spool when the boost does kick in.

Yeah, I understand the prinicples of polishing the chambers. But, I think my original question was unclear.
Wipes away the mud:
Is it a normal thing to have included in a head porting package? Or is there an extra charge?

 

[Trbobuick]

Hey mike-

Brian from motown muscle here.

What you are going to run into is, nobody has any data on runner and port design with a stock style head suited for cornering and keeping boost up.

IF you were going stage 2 there is all kinds of data for N/A SCCA type port design that could translate to a boosted configuration.

You can do what the FIA rally car guys do, a two step when the throttle is lifted to keep boost up.


Brian

 

[The Radius Kid]

I understand what you're thinking.If you are willing to trade off the Nth degree of flow and ultimate HP,you should still be able to get excellent performance.It's all in the porting philosophy.I'll call you tonight.

 

[maineSS]

Off Boost Porting

I hope you're not in a rush to get this done- good head porters
usually have a backlog of several months. If you're interested,
I can give you the email address of one who's had experience
with superchargers/turbos, and can do engine simulations in
Dynomation. I've been very satisfied with the quality of his work and the performance of the engine I had done. He's presently booked for several months ahead, so you may want to check around. BTW- your Vortec SS motor sounds very interesting-
I'm looking at the same heads for my SS. Have any "nonclassifed
info" you're willing to release? I intend to have mine ported for
street use- it can be done if you know what to modify.HTH.

 

[blackplague]

Hey Radius Kid

I got my valves from Ferrea {ph# 954-733-2505} The part numbers are Hpp-f6237 for the 1.5 exhaust and Hpp-f6238 for the 1.775 intakes. Hope this helps.

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: Off Boost Porting

Originally posted by maineSS
I hope you're not in a rush to get this done- good head porters
usually have a backlog of several months. .......HTH.

That is true if you do NOT specialize in Buicks!

We usually have a set of port-matched, bowl worked, etc. heads on the shelf. For a max port job with new [larger] valves figure 2-3 weeks.

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
I understand what you're thinking.If you are willing to trade off the Nth degree of flow and ultimate HP,you should still be able to get excellent performance.It's all in the porting philosophy.I'll call you tonight.

Radius' if you can. Hit me @ home tomorrow anytime. I am moving the SS into storage tonight and won't be in until late.

maineSS, not much to it. I used alot of used and basic parts and a set of box stock Vortec heads. Okay, they have been milled .010" for a slight compression boost and flatness. Shoot me an email and I can give you the finer points of what I have learned.

TrboBuick, thanks for the advice. We have a lot of neat tricks in the works that are being adapted from the WRC cars. Being creative beats using the same tried and true methods/recipes allocated to these cars.

Peace,

 

[The Radius Kid]

Re: Hey Radius Kid

Originally posted by blackplague
I got my valves from Ferrea {ph# 954-733-2505} The part numbers are Hpp-f6237 for the 1.5 exhaust and Hpp-f6238 for the 1.775 intakes. Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for the heads up.Much appreciated.
called you around 9:30 Mike,no answer.Will try you later Sat. afternoon.

 

[clean86]

If they were and I was into road racing or autocrossing I would do what ever Nick say's then wack 30k off the bottom of them. This will give you more power down low as well as spool faster.9 to 1 should work nice. Don't be afraid of compression 1 point isn't going to hurt topend perf you just won't have to run as much boost to get the same cylinder pres as with higher boost before.

Good luck.

 

[KWIKR 1]

Give "Wildgoose Racing"(aka-J&J Performance Automotive) a call in Stoney Creek, Ontario ask for Jim Wildgoose . Great prices , nice work .SuperFlow Bench . Has ported heads for Thrasher Engineering . Flow numbers on my heads with a Street/Mild Strip job were Int - 189.50 , Exh - 170.50 at .55 .

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by KWIKR 1
Give "Wildgoose Racing"(aka-J&J Performance Automotive) a call in Stoney Creek, Ontario ask for Jim Wildgoose . Great prices , nice work .SuperFlow Bench . Has ported heads for Thrasher Engineering . Flow numbers on my heads with a Street/Mild Strip job were Int - 189.50 , Exh - 170.50 at .55 .

Wildgoose... yes, I know of them.

Tim, could they have pushed the exhaust side further? I am looking to equal or (possibly) exceed the intake side in terms of flow.

At this point I might just be messing myself up.

 

[Nocooler]

Mr. T - I think your worried a little to much about off boost w/ a stock turbo. The stocker spools incredibly fast with simple upgrades, and a Boost Commander makes it insane!! Instaboost.

~Brain Wave~

Your still wanting a manual - thats why your worried about off boost. That maybe a little tricker.

 

[frankg]

If i were going to accomplish what you want: I wouldn't use bigger valves, just back cut the stock valves, clean up the intake runners, port the exhaust side a bit and shave them to up the compression some as stated above. Then i would install the 204-214 Sealed Power cam and it would work great!!! Frank

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Mr. T

I am interested in port velocity (especially when NOT under boost) and swirl.

Are polished combusion chambers a normal request?

Swirl is something you're not really in control of. Unless your designing you own head.
Anything that works in not boost, will be a choke point in boost conditions. Porting is for the upper end of the flow regions.

I've seen some Thousand dollar port jobs, that had 50 cents worth of chamber work.

The chambers don't need to be polished to a fine luster, since there will be carbon accumulating on them, just a nice smooth finish.

Pocket porting the heads will help some, just cleaning up where the machined areas blend to the casting is worth the effort.

If your going really fast then get the AL ones, that will get you a full exhaust port, and that is worthwhile, IMO.