You can type here any text you want

possible lifter tick/diagnosing. please help

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

bosted86

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
497
ok, engine ticks underload and i have checked everywhere for an exhaust leak. also, everytime i changed the oil the tick is not as loud. the car runs great and vaccuum is a steady 19 inches at idle. i gotta fix it cause its driving me crazy. I have pulled both valve covers although i think the tick is on the pass. side. should i start the car and look for something in particular. also, with the engine cold, all the pushrods (with closed valves) have play in them, is this ok?

sorry so long.

pat
 
Well I need to know what you mean by "play". Is there lash between the rocker and the pushrod..like a minute gap where the rocker meets the pushrod? Or is it just side to side slop? Side to side is common.
Now is this a tick or a tap or a clunk, and where is it coming from, if you use a hose as a stethoscope? A little tick is usually a sticky lifter, but this is ok. A tap from the valvetrain is caused by lash somewhere in the lifter-pushrod-rocker-valve assembly. If its something that wasnt there before, and now is, it could be a bad lifter, a cam lobe going flat, a rocker or valve stem wiping out, etc. Do you use oils that have the starburst symbol? If so, you will wipe a lobe because they dont have the quantity of zinc and phosphorous needed to coat the lobe and lifter base to protect it, and you'll have to swap the cam and lifters. Rotate the engine with the valve covers off (use a ratchet on the alternator nut), until say the exhaust rocker on a specific cylinder, has the exhaust valve opened all the way. Now you know your lifter on the intake is on the base circle of the lobe. Now check the intake rocker/pushrod for lash. Does the rocker come off the valve stem, at all, when you rock the rocker forward? you're not supposed to have any. Now rotate the engine over until the intake valve is all the way opoen, and check the exhaust rocker on that cylinder. Move on and check all cylinders.
The fact that its under a load tells me that its either a rod, or probably an exhaust leak. Exhaust leaks are really common on these cars. Check for cracks everywhere and make sure the crossover pipe is sealed. Also check the gasket where the turbo meets the header.
I personally think you have an exhaust leak...from what you've said.
 
thanks for the reply. i rotated the engine and did not get any lash on all cylinders except for side-side. does this mean my lifters are ok? i thought it may be a lifter because when the car was left to me by my brother, it had a loud tapping noise which was rythmic with the engine rpm. when i changed the oil in the car, the noise was considerably less but can still be heard when driving. cant hear when it is gear or idling only when it is under load.
 
Sounds like the cam isnt going flat, and the valve stems, pushrods and rockers are ok, but I dont know about the lifters. You need to track down exactly where the noise is coming from. A mechanics stethoscope can be a lifesaver, and even a long 1/2" hose can work really well. If you have a soggy lifter, drain a quart of oil, and pour in a quart of marvel mystery oil. Drive for 500 miles, drain the oil and throw in another quart. Dont get synthetic oil. Get regular dino oil. Dont throw in any additives either, except for the MMO.
If you want to clear out any varnish from the lifters fast, get some engine flush. There are a few different types. I use the one in a clear bottle. The ones that say "engine flush" are too much like water. It can be really hard on parts. The one I use says right on the bottle, that it wont thin out the motor oil. This is the safe one to use. Warm the engine up, pour the whole bottle of this in, let it idle for 5 minutes. Let the motor cool down...wait a couple hours. Fire it back up and let it idle for another 5 minutes. Do this one more time, and then drain the oil. Keep in mind that this isnt the instructions they give you. Ive found this will get the solvent all over every surface inside the engine, it will soak and loosen everything up, and then fire it back up to wash it all out. Do your oil change, change the filter, and throw in 5 quarts of royal purple 10W-40. I actually did this routine on saturday, and I cant believe how much quieter and smoother my engine runs. I ran nothing but royal purple in my 600hp cobra. I used to fire it up cold in the middle of winter and go tearing down the street, bouncing it off the rev limiter at 7500rpm through the gears. I really beat on that engine, and when I sold it, the compression was like new, and the car had emissions WAY cleaner than stock. Their claims of less emissions is totally true. All the tiny microscopic crevices get filled in with moly and it increases compression, stops blow-by and protects all the bearings. It also is like a mega detergent that cleans varnish and sludge out like nothing else. Ive tried every synthetic on the market and their stuff is the best. There are some punch and die assemblies I machined and built at work, and I always had a guide bushing wear issue, using mobil1 synthetic grease. On a new assembly, I used Royal Purple synchromax for manual transmissions. Just a drop on each guide. That thing ran 24/7 for a week and when I tore it down, it didnt have a single scratch on it. Im a big believer in their products. Ive had the worst luck by far with mobil 1. When I changed my oil the other night, when I pulled my filter, as usual some oil dripped all over my tie rod joint. I always wipe it off but the greasy road tar has always stayed on it. I ran the rag across this joint a couple times, and all that sludge literally melted off and it looked like fresh metal. I couldnt believe it. Like ive said in old posts, in my cobra, mobil 1 would drain out looking like nasty tar at only 4000 miles. At 8000 miles, the royal purple would drain out looking almost brand new. And the inside of my engine was immaculate, in spite of the fact I didnt change the oil as often as I should. I would go 10,000 miles at times without even changing the filter.
 
ok, i'll try the engine flush and the MMO. your right about the royal purple, i just started using it and the tick is much quieter. while i have your ear, i am dropping the oil pan just to check things out under there and giev it a cleaning. Is there anything i should be looking for specifically while it's down?
 
ok, i'll try the engine flush and the MMO. your right about the royal purple, i just started using it and the tick is much quieter. while i have your ear, i am dropping the oil pan just to check things out under there and giev it a cleaning. Is there anything i should be looking for specifically while it's down?
If you have any rear main leaks, now is the time to fix it. Also check the oil pump pickup screen, and give all the rod and main bolts a once over with a torque wrench. Wouldnt hurt to pop a cap off and check the bearings.
And dont do the MMO and engine flush. Just one or the other. I would do the engine flush, with the 5 minute circulation, cooldown, another 5 minutes and then drain and change the oil. It should get anything out thats causing issues. Hopefully you have nothing major causing the noise.
 
I didn't read too closely but did you tighten the rockers down? Also, how is the cam sensor. The ticking noise sometimes is a cam sensor on it's last let, Ask me how I know...:eek:
 
Timing chain loose, cam sensor shaft play, exh cracked under heat shield, [3-5] exh cracked in bellows, cracked flex plate..Just some possibilities.
Smoke test the exh system.
 
my car had a bad ticking sound that ive chased sinse i bought it three months ago.ended up being the debris sheild on the crank posistion sensor ,both were broken.your car and mine have low miles(mine has 48k),maybe you still have the original one on yours too.the replacements dont have this metal shield to rattle.also my knock on my s.m. has gone down too.HTH,Gary.
 
i listened to the cam sensor w/ mechanics scope and did not hear anything, crack on header already welded.no i did not tighten the rockers, should i. i did have any lash in them when i checked them. i truly believe it is a lifter and i thinking pulling the intake. if its a bad lifter, can i tell just by looking at them?
 
Pull..

i listened to the cam sensor w/ mechanics scope and did not hear anything, crack on header already welded.no i did not tighten the rockers, should i. i did have any lash in them when i checked them. i truly believe it is a lifter and i thinking pulling the intake. if its a bad lifter, can i tell just by looking at them?

each lifter, 1 at a time. Look to see if:
1. The bottom is dished in. Cam is "tango uniform", if it is.]:eek:
2. Look at the p rod seats, to see if they are up against the snap ring. If not, the lifter is collapsed, and is likely junk.
3. Look at the p rod seats on the rockers.
4. Look at the rocker bores as to how they fit the shaft. Could be wallowed out. Again, junk.
5. Look at the ends of the p rods. Eaten off? Junk. Also, roll them on a flat surface to see if any are bent.
6. Any of the locator buttons gone?
 
Dont rush into yanking the intake, unless its really loud. I would do an engine flush and change the oil again, and throw in some MMO while you're at it. The fact the noise lessened after changing the oil tells me its probably not a bad lifter. Its probably just a little varnished up, and the engine flush and MMO should take care of it. But if you do pull the intake, dont use the steel shimstock type pan gasket. All the machining tolerances of the engine need to be totally perfect for it to work right. You can have oil leaking from the lifter valley and into the EGR passages, making you chase a smoking problem in all the wrong places, or you can have vacuum leaks you never know are there. A startup puff of smoke isnt always a bad turbo seal or valve seals. Sometimes its the intake gasket leaking a little bit of oil into the EGR holes, and when you fire it up, it throws this oil right in the exhaust ports and it burns, giving you the infamous puff. That steel shim gasket just doesnt work unless every face of the heads and intake manifold have been machined to blueprint standards...and RTV works for about a week before the oil and gas kills the bond and your engine sucks it up. I changed mine out with a fel pro pan type 1 piece gasket and it ran much better...and I had no signs of it leaking before. I always had a little steam coming out of my tailpipes too, and it stopped after changing it. They had used RTV too, and it was no longer bonding anywhere because the gasket wasnt being squished around the entire perimeter of every passage, (because the faces that have to bond arent parallel because of crappy factory gang tool machining) which leaves the job of sealing and boost up to a layer of RTV, which falls apart in no time. Use permatex 'the right stuff" and the fel pro 1 piece gasket, and you'll never leak again.
If you decide to change out your lifters, be sure to do the cam break in process, and you dont want synthetic in the pan when you do it.
 
Remove valve covers, one at a time, and at an idle and observe the rocker arm action. One that doesn't move as far will indiciate a worn lobe. Also the noise will be louder if it's coming from there. You can also watch for the pushrods spinning or not. One that doesn't spin will clearly be a lobe that has failed.
 
ok, took both valve covers off and did not hear any tapping or ticking coming from either side. all the rockers appear to be moveing the same distance and all the pushrods are spinning. one thing occurred to me, while the car was idling i did not see any oil coming up into the vave cover area. isn't supposed to be trickling in there? i will do the flush first, if that does not work i'll pull the intake.
 
Thats not a good sign, and is indicative of a clogged lifter. But I would pull the rocker shafts off, pull out each pushrod 1 at a time, being extremely careful not to drop it inside the motor, and hold it up to light and check the oil feed hole to see if any are clogged at all. Its not critical, but try and keep the pushrods in their original spot. Check the hole in the rocker as well.
 
ok, have covers off and oil is coming up the pushrods and all of them are spinning although a couple are not spinning as fast as the others. all rockers appear to be moving same amount. also i found a small hole in the weld on my crossover pipe. will that make a loud enough tap or tick to hear inside the car?

by the way, the pcv sucking oil into the intake.pulled the throttle body and vac block and found oil. oil is also saround the lip of the pcv vavle. can anything be done because i'm sure it is affecting performance. no oil in the up pipe or intercooler, turbo is new.
 
From your description of the valvetrain action, it doesn't appear to me to be a lifter. If so, that's fairly good news.
 
Back
Top