Possible Torque & ET #'s

[toddmingnworld]

Guys,

Check out my combo below and cast your opinions for me. What I'm trying to find out before I make my first trip to the track is how much Torque estimated do you guys meaning those with a similar combo to mine think I could turn..Our cars stock turn 355 @2800 Rpm's and I'm assuming all the common bolt-on's increase HP #'s but do they radically improve the Torque #'s? I've been told everything from 395 to 425 currently...I'm hoping to turn a flat 12 1/4 ET or high 11's before I upgrade to my TE-44...Do you all think I'm being realistic with regard to these times? All suggestions and comments welcome..Let em fly!!

Todd

 

[Sinful6]

Your car is under turboed/intercooled The biggest turbo I would go with using those injectors is a TE54. Personally, I dont see you hitting high 11's with the stock intercooler. If you get it tuned and sorted out with a good launch I will predict 12.4s area. Also your torque is going to greatly depend on your boost, with ~23psi, I would say about 400lbs is a good guess.

Hope I helped!

 

[S2V6RACER]

He can easily get into the 11's with the stock intercooler and a TE-44 if his tune/traction is right.

 

[UNGN]

to run low 12's high 11's:

Use a race chip and race gas, a 93 chip won't cut it.

use 15" wheels and 28" tires, vs. 16" wheels and tires

 

[JToups386]

It would also help to remove about half the trivial items from your sig, in order to see the things that add up to performance...
I agree that your setup, per its current iteration, will struggle to go 12 flat or better. (not impossible, but unlikely)
I assume you'll be on something like ET Streets or ET Drags for tires? If not, then you're really not going to see anything close to your goals.
If you are on good soft tires, with your 2800 stall you should be able to leave on 10psi and hopefully maintain 18-20psi throughout the run, w/ some 104 octane race-gas added into the mix. I also assume being in Michigan, that you'll have nice cool/cold weather.
All things considered, I give you a high 12.3 - 12.5ish run. However, this is only a guesstimate, (your results may vary). I think you have a good foundation to start with, and once you add a few more enhancements, you'll achieve your ultimate goal, no prob.
If you want to figure torque and HP, then go get a timeslip. Then you can apply the common drag racing equations of how much HP it takes to push X amount of weight, to a certain ET. Or,,, better yet,,, go do a chassis dyno. I've gone 11.90's with a mere 327 rwhp, and 455 rwtq, for whatever that's worth...

 

[toddmingnworld]

Guys,

Thanks for all of your comments so far, Although I honestly believe I can hit 11's on a stock Turbo as it has been proven it can be done by fellow owners, my goal will probably be to see how big of a difference the times will be from a 1/4 mile run w/Stock Turbo vs. a TE-44 per say.

Ted, I agree with you completely if I can tune, tune and tune so more I think I can have a solid 11 second machine..I will probably race with BF Drag radials as I have heard nothing but good things as my death machine will only see the track just a few times a year..Street manners are very important to me and I think DR's can do me justice in both ways. As far as needing an intercooler to run 11's that's not the key for me...Traction, Tuning & my TE-44 are what I'm lacking not to mention track experience. The size injectors I selected were a future upgrade done last year with the TE-44 in mine..The 44 will come to reality next year.

Jtoups386,

Luv'd your little sassy comment, I know you meant it all in fun, thanks for the insight though. Monies low right now so the GN probably won't see the track until Spring anyhow.

I'm out

Todd

 

[blackbuick87]

You will need lots of track time to learn how to launch on DR's. Especially if the track is prepped crappy like the one around here. Trust me I know.
You probably have enough to do it on slicks and a great tune, but not on DR's until you get the 44 at least, and even then it will be tough

 

[Sinful6]

Everyone I know that has a GN was confident about running a great timeslip their first time at the track with their combo based on what others have run in the past. After you make your first pass, you will probably run a mid13 and wonder wtf, I can do better, second pass, you might get a better launch, and run a 13.0, and after you make another 13.0sec pass to reinforce it, you wont think the same about your combo again. That confidence will be gone, and sadly, it will feel slower on the street. With my combo seen here: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54633 and 12PSI/93octane w/93octane chip, I ran a high 12(with a mid12s mph) however, the car doesn't feel slow because I know I can crank the boost to ~26psi, and fly away

 

[JToups386]

Todd:
You are correct about getting 11's out of a stock turbo. I'm not tooting my own horn, but, I was able to run 11.90's at 110-112 w/ a stock turbo (17-18psi). However, I did have a BGC stretch intercooler, a little more cam, and mildly self ported heads. In otherwords, it took some effort to achieve it, but I have seen others do it without ever taking a valve cover off. It really is dependent on so many different factors, tuning being a big key! I have seen cars run 10's on BFG DR's, but, those same cars went 9's on slicks. In otherwords, you have to have some extra HP in reserve to run well on DR's. You're not going to see an 11 or even low 12 second ET, IMO, per your current setup and DR's. I was on full slicks, and cut 1.58 60' times, in order to crack into the 11's with my stock turbo. Obviously my ET was all made in the 60'. A general rule of thumb is; each tenth off the 60' is worth 2 tenths off the 1/4 ET. If you go out and cut mid 1.7's, (which I suspect you will), you don't have enough other enhancements to carry you to your goal. I'm not at all trying to discourage you, but rather, trying to shed some long developed track knowledge with these cars. As I said though, your results may vary. You may be the exception to the rule. However, it does look like you've got some good basic upgrades already installed, and once you add a little to them, you'll achieve those ET's. The only other comment I would throw out is; I personally think you would gain better ET's by investing in slicks, or head porting, or an intercooler upgrade, over the bigger turbo. The stock turbo will take you where you want to go (high 11's) with additional upgrades, whereas I would gamble that the TE44 will not improve your ET per your current configuration. I've had friends put larger turbos on stock setups, and actually slow their cars down. Who knows though...???
Just don't go out there expecting too much. I always lean on conservative predictions, and then celebrate if I beat them. It helps avoid disappointment... Best wishes to ya'...! Keep us informed.

 

[azgn]

the secret is to spend less time reading what one sees on the board and more time at the track

bench racing is great but it means nada........

so, go do it, and find out for yourself!

 

[toddmingnworld]

Sweet!

Loads of info..Thanks for all the great knowledge fella's..

Azgn,

I heard that, just get my lazy a$$ to the track and see for myself huh..Got a point there bro...I will, but I've spent so much money on this beast already, I am giving it a break for now, picking the brains of the more experienced owners out their for my own selfish reasons.. I've realized I can't just throw money @ this thing and expect to be rewarded with a fast car...This animal has taught me to take my sweet time and treat it as the project it was intended to be..

Sinful6,

You are 100% correct with regard to my potential first track results no doubt about it as I am new to this game..I think too though as I learn to capitalize on the strong part of car and strengthen the weaker parts my goals will become ever more attainable..Cranking up the boost is one thing I have not yet experimented with it nor race fuel for the matter. I have decided to let it sit @ 17 for now, I guess maybe I'm waiting for all the pieces of the puzzle to come together.


blackbuick87,

Perhaps we can meet up at Milan raceway one day in the future
and you can share your track knowledge with me in person?

JToups386,

So you don't think a 44 is a wise investment given my current config..That's interesting because the Vendor I use and alot of the guys who own and drive GN's in my neck of the woods say the 44 should be my next major move as they work really well with those 009's & that 2800 Higher stall TC...For the most part I hear the Stock Turbo has good low end power but loses steam around what the 19 psi level whereas the 44 has good low end pull and great output @ higher psi's....My engine has been rebuilt as my vendor revealed to me when they pulled and replaced my rear main seal..From what I was told and saw, it was some polished aftermarket pistons & King Bearings I believe...Maybe this has something to do with how well this car responds.My vendor felt after test driving my car that it could easily clock a flat 12 time given I have good traction..I have been told to go with CAS Stock Location Intercooler but funds will not allow for it...One or the other...Hmmmm...Your comments are making me think twice though...

 

[JToups386]

Uhuh... Well, I'm not saying that the TE44 is not a good investment/upgrade. I'm simply suggesting a certain order of things. To me, it makes more sense to open up the holes that the air goes through first, and then worry about getting a bigger huffer to cram it in there. As I've said all along, you may obtain different results, but, based on my own experience, and many of the Houston area GN's (and there's a bunch), you stand a better chance of improving your ET with other mods first. It just depends on where you want to start. I agree with AZGN; take it to the track and see where you're at! Get a baseline ET, and then make decisions from there. Your stock turbo would really enjoy some nice ported heads to channel through. It would also love a soft pair of slicks to leave at 10+ psi off the line! Yes, the 44 will gain you some mph, but, in your current configuration, it appears you'll need to get the thing to hook up first, and you are going to struggle to do it with just DR's. The guy I sold my TR to put a set of Nitto DR's on it after he bought it, and went to the track, only to see a 1.80 60' time, which is a far cry from the 1.58's I was cutting on slicks! (remember the ET formula...?)
Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse. You'll need to learn for yourself, and you certainly will not harm yourself by upgrading the turbo. (you've already got enough injector for it)
I just think you'll need these other items to monopolize its potential. Of course, we're all limited by finances, and it took me 10 freakin' years to go from 12.80's down to 11.90's, through learning and many wasted dollars. Also, I place little value in the advice of "Vendors" who are usually trying to sell me expensive parts first, and then worrying about if they were really necessary...
Your "Vendor" said you had shiny pistons? What does that mean? All new pistons look shiny when they come out of the box. Pistons have nothing to do with making power in our applications, other than going to forged for strength. A motor is merely an air-pump. Get as much air as you can in, and out, as quickly as possible. A freshly built motor is dandy, but unless you've upgraded the cam, and ported the heads, there's not a whole lot of value in the shiny pieces, from a HP standpoint. You also mentioned the CAS V4. Great choice, but be sure you buy it from someone other than CAS, or you'll never see it. In otherwords, go to someone that sells them for him! Ramchargers.com sells it for $30 less than you can buy it from Tony directly. I would actually recommend looking for them used online. Cheaper is better!!! I bought a slightly used CAS V2 front mount for $700, as opposed to his price of $900. I'm a bargain hunter though...
Sorry for the longwinded reply, but I hope it helps ya' a little...
Maybe we should just follow AZGN's advice to; shut up and run the dang thing...?

 

[blackbuick87]

Todd once I get my HG's swapped and maybe a tiny bit of porting we should get together some time next spring. It would be nice to talk to learn with someone at my perf level. I was just talking from exp since I have yet to cut better than a 2.0 on radials. I am about to take Steve Y's advice and load my trunk with bricks

 

[toddmingnworld]

JToups386,

Yeah alot of what you say makes a hell of alot of sense, I guess everyone has their own opinion of certain things though. Shiny Pistons was not exactly what he said but they were not forged he told me flat out...I am trying my best not to use slicks but I guess in the eventual scheme of things I just may have no choice but too to attain my goals. I think I will reserve that money for the Turbo and just see how the damn thing runs at the track to give me a baseline to begin from like you suggested as opposed to bolting on a bunch of expensive parts and be upset when I'm nowhere near I wanted to be...Appreciate bro your honest thoughts and tips...By the way how much would a Vendor charge to mildly port stock heads I wonder?

blackbuick87,

Cool cause I won't be going to the track untill spring undoubtely...Sounds like a plan..Keep in touch buddy!

Todd