Can anybody tell me what mods have to be done to a production front cover to fit an on center S2 block. It seems to sit .12" out further from the face of the block where the cam & crank sit on the production block. Or do I have to buy a different cover & where could I get one. Also, my stage 2 heads have titanium exaust valves & what appear to be copper seats. Are these O.K. to use in a turbo motor. Any feedback would be great. Thanks, James.
Production front cover on S2 on center block mods
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S
SIXBANGIN`
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James,
Try this site, I think it will help. The list has been great to me on this topic.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000026.html
George
Try this site, I think it will help. The list has been great to me on this topic.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000026.html
George
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- May 28, 2001
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- 16,557
Stock cover/stage motor
You can make a washer .120" thick that fits over the crank snout. It goes on after the oil slinger and spaces the balancer out .120" so that the crank trigger will clear the ring. Otherwise you have to mill the cover down .120" and that will put the cam sensor gear in a different position on the cam gear.
ALSO: The stage 2 block does not have a seal surface in the area of the crank sensor bolts. If you do not fill that void in the cover w/ JB weld and file it flat, you WILL have a bitch of an oil leak!!BTDT
Put the gasket on the block and then on the cover. You will see what I mean.
Additionally, you have to use sealer on the fuel pump cover bolts and all the ft cover bolts as they are open to oil flow.
You may also see that the cover locating pin sticking out of the ft of the block is not long enough to locate the crank sensor holder brkt.[Stage 2 cover does not use the same mount for the sensor]
I machined countersinks in the brkt holes and used flat headed, tapered allen bolts to locate the brkt.
works for me.
You can make a washer .120" thick that fits over the crank snout. It goes on after the oil slinger and spaces the balancer out .120" so that the crank trigger will clear the ring. Otherwise you have to mill the cover down .120" and that will put the cam sensor gear in a different position on the cam gear.
ALSO: The stage 2 block does not have a seal surface in the area of the crank sensor bolts. If you do not fill that void in the cover w/ JB weld and file it flat, you WILL have a bitch of an oil leak!!BTDT
Put the gasket on the block and then on the cover. You will see what I mean.Additionally, you have to use sealer on the fuel pump cover bolts and all the ft cover bolts as they are open to oil flow.
You may also see that the cover locating pin sticking out of the ft of the block is not long enough to locate the crank sensor holder brkt.[Stage 2 cover does not use the same mount for the sensor]
I machined countersinks in the brkt holes and used flat headed, tapered allen bolts to locate the brkt.
works for me.So in summary, the cam sensor and cam gear WILL be in proper alignment if the cover is not milled, correct?
Basically a .120 washer to space the damper and the above details on sealing and holding the crank trigger and that's it.
Sounds pretty easy.
Ted
Basically a .120 washer to space the damper and the above details on sealing and holding the crank trigger and that's it.
Sounds pretty easy.
Ted
Ron Tarabori
New Member
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- May 25, 2001
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Well, Its not quite that easy. You also need to space the dist. drive gear out 120 thou. You can either put a washer between the gear and the accentric or you can eliminate the fuel pump accentric and make a one piece spacer. Just watch the key way and make sure everythin has a good bit of key in it. Some of the cams can be a little short on keyway at the nose. If you want to be sure just put your cam assembly in the block, measure from the face of the block to the center of the cam gear. Then measure from the surface of the front cover to the center of the dist hole. Allow for the thickness of the gasket and you have the measurement you need. I've had a couple of block that the front was milled and they required a little less.
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Stock cover on a stage 2
That's strange. I discussed this at length w/ Cal H. He made no mention of spacing the dist. gear out. You didn't either, Ron. Is this something you just came across??
My engine is still on the stand. Will check it tomorrow and report back as to what I find.
That's strange. I discussed this at length w/ Cal H. He made no mention of spacing the dist. gear out. You didn't either, Ron. Is this something you just came across??
My engine is still on the stand. Will check it tomorrow and report back as to what I find.
S
SIXBANGIN`
Guest
Hey guys,
I decided to go through some of my Stage 2 notes that I`ve been collecting over the last couple of years and I found a something indicating that there is a Buick ``competition front cover`` available for the ``on centre`` Stage 2 requiring no modifications at all. Could this be a fact ... or fiction ... perhaps there was one and it`s no longer available ???
Anyone confirm this at all ?
George
I decided to go through some of my Stage 2 notes that I`ve been collecting over the last couple of years and I found a something indicating that there is a Buick ``competition front cover`` available for the ``on centre`` Stage 2 requiring no modifications at all. Could this be a fact ... or fiction ... perhaps there was one and it`s no longer available ???
Anyone confirm this at all ?
George
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- May 28, 2001
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FT COVER
6 bangin, I think the cover you are referring to has no oil pump provision on it. All the covers I've seen specifically for the S2, have no oil pump, only use is w/ dry sump applications.
6 bangin, I think the cover you are referring to has no oil pump provision on it. All the covers I've seen specifically for the S2, have no oil pump, only use is w/ dry sump applications.
S
SIXBANGIN`
Guest
Thanks Chuck,
I dug up the part # for the competition front cover I had in my notes. #25500169 Shed any light ??
George
I dug up the part # for the competition front cover I had in my notes. #25500169 Shed any light ??
George
Ron Tarabori
New Member
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- May 25, 2001
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- 118
Anybody want to buy about 50 of them. Like Chuck says the race front cover has no oil pump. It is strictly a dry sump piece. Those retired people have too much time on there hands. If I were starting from scratch building one I would use the stage front cover and an external single stage belt driven pump if I had to go wet sump.
External single stage oil pump
Hi Ron. I was talking to you the other night about that single stage oil pump & was wondering if you know where they are sold. Also does it come with a regulator. Most of us will be using the A/C delete pulley, so there is a posibility you could drive the pump there. Maybe you can find a market for those covers after all. Thanks to everybody that have replied . James
Hi Ron. I was talking to you the other night about that single stage oil pump & was wondering if you know where they are sold. Also does it come with a regulator. Most of us will be using the A/C delete pulley, so there is a posibility you could drive the pump there. Maybe you can find a market for those covers after all. Thanks to everybody that have replied . James
EightSecV6
MDBL
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- Jul 18, 2001
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You can buy a used 3 or 4 stage pump reasonably cheap and convert it to single. Good luck on trying to use it with a bunch of accessories in place. It is a good idea to space the timing gear out but not absolutely necessary.
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Cam gear spacer
I have checked the contact pattern on the cam sensor gear in my stage 2 on-ctr engine. I have found the pattern to be VERY near the ctr of the gear and do not find uneven wear on the teeth.
The cover is not milled, nor is the cam gear spaced out .120" as the balancer is. No problems so far!!
Moroso has a single stage external pump that could be adapted to the stage engine.
Converting a used dry sump pump could get real costly as a WEAVER rebuild on the last dry sump we installed on a N/A engine cost over $600.
I have checked the contact pattern on the cam sensor gear in my stage 2 on-ctr engine. I have found the pattern to be VERY near the ctr of the gear and do not find uneven wear on the teeth.
The cover is not milled, nor is the cam gear spaced out .120" as the balancer is. No problems so far!!
Moroso has a single stage external pump that could be adapted to the stage engine.
Converting a used dry sump pump could get real costly as a WEAVER rebuild on the last dry sump we installed on a N/A engine cost over $600.
EightSecV6
MDBL
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- Jul 18, 2001
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That is correct on the rebuild Chuck but Weaver will replace an entire pump stage if one gear has a SCRATCH on it!! The conversion to a single stage can be done at home.
Bill
Bill
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Weavers$$
I think that's right on, Bill. I didn't take the pump apart B4 it was rebuilt and when I saw the bill, I almost had a coronary!!
I think that's right on, Bill. I didn't take the pump apart B4 it was rebuilt and when I saw the bill, I almost had a coronary!!
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- May 25, 2001
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StageII cover w/belt drive oil pump pic
Found a couple of pics of my motor with the oil pump and cover that has been talked about.
Have not been able to use this sent up,as it does not clear my headers. Used stock cover and Duttweiler pump set up.
Austin
Found a couple of pics of my motor with the oil pump and cover that has been talked about.
Have not been able to use this sent up,as it does not clear my headers. Used stock cover and Duttweiler pump set up.
Austin
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 636
