Question on radiators

[chris kirk]

I still get a kick out of all the ''I have to have NASA spec 14 row, blah , blah, blah" radiators with fans that suck harder than a pair of Thai hookers (and draw a million amps doing it).


I have a fancy F-body rad from AAP, a heater core from Vatozone, and a plain ole replacement water pump from AAP. Every single part with a lifetime warranty that can be honored anywhere in the US. Oh, and and plain ole stock fan.

According to my powerlogger, the engine cools off a couple degrees when I go WOT.



If you have a clogged up radiator, the solution is to replace it with a radiator that's not clogged up. It doesn't take a fortune in heroics to get back to working correctly. All you need is water flow and air flow.

And our frontal area has PLENTY of grill area to make a nice wide and tall radiator surface area. Makes it pretty easy to get results with plain 'ole parts.

"Thai hookers" ahhhh.....That's great....... Exactly on the rad statement. Something else that people also over look is boxing it in correctly. NY Twin Turbo had a great write-up on how he boxed-in his rad and IC.

 

[earlbrown]

^ good point. I thought about that after I lost the ability to edit. It's been so long since I boxed mine (AKA 'installed some zip ties') I completely forgot that was a thing.

 

[Ttype6]

I did learn about a company called Cold Case and they make an oversize twin core that they claim will cool better than a 3 or a 4 core even.

You did the right thing. The radiator that can extract the most heat is the aluminum one with 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. As air passes through a core with 3 or 4 rows of cooling tubes,it will go into a turbulent/restrictive state as it passes through the open gaps between the rows of cooling tubes. In a 4 row radiator,the air will pass through an open space between the rows 3 times. It will do this 2 times passing through a 3 row radiator. It happens once in a 2 row. Since the 2 row has only one gap between the 2 rows the cooling fins are in contact with a larger percentage of tube area per inch of core thickness. The more tube area that the fins touch,the more heat extraction occurs. Since there is only one gap in a 2 row radiator,the core thickness can be at a minimum. This is good because air gets hotter as it passes through the core. Thicker core,hotter air,less efficient.

The Cold Case,which is also sold buy Kirbin's, and the Alradco are both radiators that utilize 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. There's nothing better except a core with 1 row of 2 " wide cooling tubes,but that would be a very expensive custom made radiator. This is what they use in NASCAR. You can't produce copper tubes this wide because copper lacks the strength and the tubes would collapse.

 

[ShaunKris]

You did the right thing. The radiator that can extract the most heat is the aluminum one with 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. As air passes through a core with 3 or 4 rows of cooling tubes,it will go into a turbulent/restrictive state as it passes through the open gaps between the rows of cooling tubes. In a 4 row radiator,the air will pass through an open space between the rows 3 times. It will do this 2 times passing through a 3 row radiator. It happens once in a 2 row. Since the 2 row has only one gap between the 2 rows the cooling fins are in contact with a larger percentage of tube area per inch of core thickness. The more tube area that the fins touch,the more heat extraction occurs. Since there is only one gap in a 2 row radiator,the core thickness can be at a minimum. This is good because air gets hotter as it passes through the core. Thicker core,hotter air,less efficient.

The Cold Case,which is also sold buy Kirbin's, and the Alradco are both radiators that utilize 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. There's nothing better except a core with 1 row of 2 " wide cooling tubes,but that would be a very expensive custom made radiator. This is what they use in NASCAR. You can't produce copper tubes this wide because copper lacks the strength and the tubes would collapse.

Awesome. Thank-you for explaining that. I figured that as well. I’m no physicist but I get it.

 

[chris kirk]

You did the right thing. The radiator that can extract the most heat is the aluminum one with 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. As air passes through a core with 3 or 4 rows of cooling tubes,it will go into a turbulent/restrictive state as it passes through the open gaps between the rows of cooling tubes. In a 4 row radiator,the air will pass through an open space between the rows 3 times. It will do this 2 times passing through a 3 row radiator. It happens once in a 2 row. Since the 2 row has only one gap between the 2 rows the cooling fins are in contact with a larger percentage of tube area per inch of core thickness. The more tube area that the fins touch,the more heat extraction occurs. Since there is only one gap in a 2 row radiator,the core thickness can be at a minimum. This is good because air gets hotter as it passes through the core. Thicker core,hotter air,less efficient.

The Cold Case,which is also sold buy Kirbin's, and the Alradco are both radiators that utilize 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. There's nothing better except a core with 1 row of 2 " wide cooling tubes,but that would be a very expensive custom made radiator. This is what they use in NASCAR. You can't produce copper tubes this wide because copper lacks the strength and the tubes would collapse.

Exactly. The fewer the rows and bigger the tubes the better it dissipates heat. Maybe NY Twin Turbo will share his pictures of his when he boxed in his rad. Did a beautiful job with it. Actually what's not perfect about his car.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Exactly. The fewer the rows and bigger the tubes the better it dissipates heat. Maybe NY Twin Turbo will share his pictures of his when he boxed in his rad. Did a beautiful job with it. Actually what's not perfect about his car.

The Cold Case,which is also sold buy Kirbin's, and the Alradco are both radiators that utilize 2 rows of 1" wide cooling tubes. There's nothing better except a core with 1 row of 2 " wide cooling tubes,but that would be a very expensive custom made radiator. This is what they use in NASCAR. You can't produce copper tubes this wide because copper lacks the strength and the tubes would collapse.

Just noticed my name was mentioned. Thank you for the invitation.

I'll share what I have done. But once again, I'm afraid the things that I have done to my ride are not often applicable to most other TRs. Mostly overkill to the extreme, my mods were made in an effort to build a twin turbo car that can be driven for any amount of time, in NYC traffic or on long highway trips on the very hottest days of the year. Sometimes, I wish I could be more help.

-I don't have an AC.
-I don't have internal oil or transmission coolers in my radiator. I do have them both and both are on fans, but they are external.
-I don't have heat (not a factor, but it minimizes complexity in the engine compartment.)
-I don't have any coolant bypass tubes on the intake manifold.
-I do have a large custom built 46 row wide, bar and plate, 3-1/2 inch thick, top fed to bottom tank, twin turbo configured intercooler.

-My 160 degree thermostat has three 1/8th holes drilled in it at the 12, 4 and 8 o'clock positions.
-I use standard Prestone mixed 50/50 myself with distilled water and a bottle of RMI-25.
-I flush the coolant and replace every other driving season (2 years).
-I have an electric Mezier water pump on a manual switch. I leave it on all the time. I'm in the habit of using the master disconnect
when I get out of the car. (no radio or clock to reprogram )
-I use a cut and trimmed stock style silicone lower radiator hose, and a custom aluminum upper radiator pipe with silicone couplers.
-I use the dual Intrepid fan set-up (Ram Chargers, back when I bought it). Manual override switch and XFI controlled
169-on 164-off , high speed only operation.

And the two things described by others in this thread in the posts above.....................

-I have a Tony DeQuick radiator. This is an aluminum dual 1 inch core radiator as described above by Ttype6.
-I have my entire grill opening baffled tight as a drum so that absolutely no air can escape travel through the interccoler and then must go through the radiator.

See photos below.

 

[ShaunKris]

Yeah you’re right man it is pretty extreme but it looks great ! I like the thinking behind that, i’m going to try a less extreme baffle type system on mine too. Thanks for showing the pictures man!

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

Yeah you’re right man it is pretty extreme but it looks great ! I like the thinking behind that, i’m going to try a less extreme baffle type system on mine too. Thanks for showing the pictures man!

No. Thank you!

 

[ShaunKris]

No. Thank you!

hey man I just went through your entire post that you gave to me about your ignition build. Brother.. I am totally floored.
I knew you put some work into it but I had no idea. I am totally inspired. As a new owner of a 1984T top with the Lier S interior, I just want to make it beautiful like what you’ve done an ode to hot rotting but always keep in mind where it came from and what it actually is. I know it’s not the most desirable grand national out there, but I also know that it’s probably one of 200 or so and who knows how many of them are still on the road in that particular configuration. I have been in my garage since I bought the car every night taking pictures and taking things apart and trying to understand how that car works. Pretty new to it so I got a long ways to go but I think like you do and I just want to be perfect and everything and I don’t trust anybody to do the work on things that I know I can do myself. I’m looking for all those posts like what you’ve done by the way I know you’ve heard thank you 1 million times for posting all of that but I’m just going to thank you one more time because you totally deserve all the credit you’re getting. I’d very much like to stay in contact with you as I go through my build. Anyhow just had to say something man. Cheers! Loved every line and every picture!

 

[Clark6]

No A.C here,, no condenser. Ride mostly with windows down when not too hot. lol. I have the Stock fan/hi speed relay-- Same F-body radiator,,,Same water pump all bought new in 09... & same Evans engine coolant with another gallon added in 2012 cuz my fan blade cut the top hose & had to replace. Live in South Ga. radiator winter temps 165-175 --Spring summer temps usually 179-185. but since last week installed an trans cooler. temp for coolant has risen to 193 on a 41 mile journey my home thermostat said outside temp was a 100* today but on the highway most likely 97. My temp has gotten to 210 waiting in a drive through at McDonalds. No worries the Evans boiling point is 375 never got over 210 as It uses no water....I did notice some bugs/dirt around the fins,,, guess its time to clean it. Not bad for coolant that's about 10yrs old.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

hey man I just went through your entire post that you gave to me about your ignition build. Brother.. I am totally floored.
I knew you put some work into it but I had no idea. I am totally inspired. As a new owner of a 1984T top with the Lier S interior, I just want to make it beautiful like what you’ve done an ode to hot rotting but always keep in mind where it came from and what it actually is. I know it’s not the most desirable grand national out there, but I also know that it’s probably one of 200 or so and who knows how many of them are still on the road in that particular configuration. I have been in my garage since I bought the car every night taking pictures and taking things apart and trying to understand how that car works. Pretty new to it so I got a long ways to go but I think like you do and I just want to be perfect and everything and I don’t trust anybody to do the work on things that I know I can do myself. I’m looking for all those posts like what you’ve done by the way I know you’ve heard thank you 1 million times for posting all of that but I’m just going to thank you one more time because you totally deserve all the credit you’re getting. I’d very much like to stay in contact with you as I go through my build. Anyhow just had to say something man. Cheers! Loved every line and every picture!

Thanks again. But don't single me out. Much of what I have done was done many times, by many others before me, and much better. And although many are gone, many are still here on this forum among us. And others don't post any longer, but still lurk in the shadows. It's not like it used to be. But It's still a community. Many of us are personal friends, and a lot of us (especially the old-timers) have met quite a few times in person. Some of us no longer get a chance to see each other anymore. And let's not forget, the Buick world has it's share of particular politics.

More than 25 years ago, I too, started with a hot-air 85 TR. This is still the one I own today. But remember, it was 25 years ago! I made a few mistakes. So make changes slow, and learn as much as you can fast.

 

[ShaunKris]

Thanks again. But don't single me out. Much of what I have done was done many times, by many others before me, and much better. And although many are gone, many are still here on this forum among us. And others don't post any longer, but still lurk in the shadows. It's not like it used to be. But It's still a community. Many of us are personal friends, and a lot of us (especially the old-timers) have met quite a few times in person. Some of us no longer get a chance to see each other anymore. And let's not forget, the Buick world has it's share of particular politics.

More than 25 years ago, I too, started with a hot-air 85 TR. This is still the one I own today. But remember, it was 25 years ago! I made a few mistakes. So make changes slow, and learn as much as you can fast.

I hear ya, i’m getting into the sports a little late in life I guess I’m 46. I’ve had personal chats with a couple guys so far. And I get along with everybody so far. Where is the politics go, I’m not really picking up on anything so I just don’t really listen for that too much. But it is nice to know that everybody’s around for the most part to help me through this process of building mine.
I’d like to make it down south but since I’m from Edmonton Alberta it’s a long ways. I need to meet some of you guys in person just to look at what you’ve done and pick up your brains a little bit.. maybe make some connections as far as parts and things like that, that guys aren’t using anymore. I really like the intercooled idea, and I found a few posts were guys have converted their HA’s to intercooled cars and they look totally trick. Anyway I’m getting a little long-winded here, I’ll be watching and listening. I don’t have much to add right now but I’m definitely paying attention.
Thanks again, sure appreciate what you’ve done there, and respect and shout out to everybody else that didn’t get mentioned in all that.

 

[Neel Dhudshia]

As stated prior just as important as the radiator is what is in it RMI 25 not only cools it also cleans and lubricates the cooling system.It works great in intercooler system for superchargers . In our 18 z06 corvette running distilled water and RMI 25 (25%) dropped IATs by 20 degs and much faster recovery in temps . And running it in the cooling system with distilled water and 160 thermostat with tune in the Las Vegas heat will not see 200 no matter what . Our turbo Buick’s with stock cooling system run 160-170 in the Vegas heat . You can look at their web site and video www.rmi25.com

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

Yeah you’re right man it is pretty extreme but it looks great ! I like the thinking behind that, i’m going to try a less extreme baffle type system on mine too. Thanks for showing the pictures man!

Maybe for most, the GNS radiator Box In Kit is all that's needed.

You might want to call scot to see if it will work on the '84. I don't see why it wouldn't, but you never know.

Cooling-g-body | gns-performance-

www.gnsperformance.com

 

[ShaunKris]

Maybe for most, the GNS radiator Box In Kit is all that's needed.

You might want to call scot to see if it will work on the '84. I don't see why it wouldn't, but you never know.

Cooling-g-body | gns-performance-

www.gnsperformance.com

I had a close perk at my car after I looked at those pics, and I do have somewhat of a baffle in there from factory, it’s a bit flimsy. However I’ve mentioned this before but I ordered a Cold Case (big2core) rad W/shroud, & fans as well as a Flowcooler W/P. That should be more than enough for now & sometime in the future.

 

[ShaunKris]

So I had to remove the shroud that was in there to make room for Frankenrad.. lol.. works awesome though.

 

[TurboSmart]

Guys...how are you managing the hot air that exit the radiator?
I noticed that with the hood closed, the temps will skyrocket as the air get sucked back from the sides of the rad. My rad is boxed but there are some gaps at the sides. I placed cardboard walls to prevent this while testing and worked great.
Also, making the gnx fender vents functional helps a lot.
Other question...is there a fan controller capable of shutting off the fans when going over 20mph or so?

 

[captndave737]

Guys...how are you managing the hot air that exit the radiator?
I noticed that with the hood closed, the temps will skyrocket as the air get sucked back from the sides of the rad. My rad is boxed but there are some gaps at the sides. I placed cardboard walls to prevent this while testing and worked great.
Also, making the gnx fender vents functional helps a lot.
Other question...is there a fan controller capable of shutting off the fans when going over 20mph or so?

Boxed radiator and these. I think the fans turn off at 35 mph with the stock ECM and chip. Not sure about after market.

 

[Boostrules]

Guys...how are you managing the hot air that exit the radiator?
I noticed that with the hood closed, the temps will skyrocket as the air get sucked back from the sides of the rad. My rad is boxed but there are some gaps at the sides. I placed cardboard walls to prevent this while testing and worked great.
Also, making the gnx fender vents functional helps a lot.
Other question...is there a fan controller capable of shutting off the fans when going over 20mph or so?

During the summer months I always remove the rear hood gasket that lets more air exit the engine compartment. Would love to put in some GNX style vents but don't have the expertise to do the job & not real crazy about the look either.

 

[GNICETRY]

To answer your question I have an old ATR radiator boxing kit. I would have to confirm but it seals up very well. I don't have the horizontal plastic piece though that goes from grille to radiator and I feel the air goes to the intercooler scoop right below it once it hits the radiator.
IIRC taking off the rear hood weather stripping doesn't really help. Something about it being a high pressure area at speed. Plus half of it protects the AC from sucking up hot engine air.
If your temps are skyrocketing from having some openings in the box kit I think you have another issue or you have a very crappy box kit. All the air should go into the engine compartment after it goes through the radiator, and then under the car.