race fuel and alky

[ADJMART]

Aside from the added cost of race fuel and damage to 02 sensors,wouldnt i get the best performance if i ran race fuel with my alky injection?I could turn the timing up more with race fuel and have a cooler intake charge with the alky.Any opinions on this?

Also,say you ran 110 octane with the alky,would the alky bring the octane number up on the race fuel like it does with say 93 octane?

 

[Slow91z]

Theoretically yes.

I don't know your combo, but with my car I am running all the boost I can (literally, I cracked my ATR headers in 2 places half way around the tube at Norwalk when I turned it up) and mid 20's on timing and I NEVER put anything but 93 in my car.

My last car was more stock and ran mid 11's...I ran over 30 psi and mid 20's on timing with it and daily drove it with a single nozzle kit. Never changed the tune once I got it turned up.

 

[ADJMART]

So are you saying that 93 and alky can pretty much handle anything you are gonna need so the race fuel would be pretty much of no benefit?

 

[Slow91z]

I'm saying that in my car that seems to be the case...I obviously have no idea about your car, but I'd say unless it's a low 9 sec. car you'll most likely be fine.

"disclamer" I am running more alky than most, my kit is turned way up with dual nozzles and I have quite a bit of fuel removed from the chip to compensate...Your result may vary.

 

[Red C5]

Really should be no need for alky and race gas. You should probably post more info about your combo, ADJ

 

[ADJMART]

te44
dutt neck intercooler
razors alky
turbo tweak
42lb injectors
lt1 mass air
translator
reds fuel pump
hotwire kit
3in downpipe
3in atr exhaust
hd actuator
k+n filter
scanmaster and power logger
janis built tranny
lc1 wideband

The car runs great but I guess I am just looking for more.Figured my next step would be adding timing and the easyist way would be 110 fuel instead of messing around with the alky controls.

 

[Grumpy]

well how fast is it now with race gas ????

 

[Reggie West]

NO.

Race gas and alcohol dont mix well.
The reason everyone uses alky on a street car with 91 or 93 octane is because you can run much more timing than on street gas alone. Yes the alky cools the intake charge. It does effectively raise the octane number as well.

On race gas the octane number is 116. The fuel is made to withstand much more pressure and heat before it ignites. The higher the temperature and pressure the fuel can withstand, the more timing you can throw at the motor to make the power.

For example on street gas your EGTs will be around 1400 degrees before you will detonate cylinders and that might be a little high.

On race gas, you can run EGTs of 1750 to 1800 degrees and it wont detonate.

Timing on street gas you can get away with 18 degrees max on the top end of the rpm scale.

On race gas you can run 24 to 26 degrees by itself and it is designed to work under those kinds of conditions.

 

[bison]

no.

Race gas and alcohol dont mix well.

lmao! Id like to see a data log where you ran 1800 degree egt's and made it downt the quarter. Your post is so far from the reality i hope no one takes it seriously.

 

[cdsttype]

NO.

Race gas and alcohol dont mix well.
The reason everyone uses alky on a street car with 91 or 93 octane is because you can run much more timing than on street gas alone. Yes the alky cools the intake charge. It does effectively raise the octane number as well.

On race gas the octane number is 116. The fuel is made to withstand much more pressure and heat before it ignites. The higher the temperature and pressure the fuel can withstand, the more timing you can throw at the motor to make the power.

For example on street gas your EGTs will be around 1400 degrees before you will detonate cylinders and that might be a little high.

On race gas, you can run EGTs of 1750 to 1800 degrees and it wont detonate.

Timing on street gas you can get away with 18 degrees max on the top end of the rpm scale.

On race gas you can run 24 to 26 degrees by itself and it is designed to work under those kinds of conditions.

I think richie high psi would beg to differ he ran real fast on his tsm engine
with dual nozzle alky and race fuel.To my knowledge no one has put up numbers like his on pump gas and alky.

 

[Razor]

I've got plenty of 8 second customer cars on race gas and alky. The reason is IC. The A-A size it would take to support 1200-1400 HP is huge.. and having a small A-A with the methanol gets temps where they need to be.

Richies was a great example. His twin turbo SBC even using the biggest IC made for a GN was seeing over 170 degree's through the traps.. single nozzle alky kit.. down under a 100.

As to ADJMART.. your turbo is limited in size. You can easily max out the capabilities of that turbo with the injection kit you own.

Just need to learn to watch your tune up.. as to timing, boost, and airfuel. Keep increasing until it doesnt go any faster. past that... time for bigger turbo or new motor with less leakdown.

HTH

 

[Razor]

Wanted to add.. fastest 93 plus alky 109 Buick is 9.63 at 143.

A little Birdie called me two nights ago and his 3720 lb Buick without driver ran 9.71 at 142.. on pump gas and alcohol.

 

[ADJMART]

razor,what kind of timing numbers would you expect me to be able to run with my setup? I am at 25lbs of boost now with 25/24 degrees timing with no knock and 10.8 on my wide band at wot.02's are around 780.alky knob at 7.
Also you said my turbo is limited.Should I go with something like a te60 and a higher stall to get more out of it?

 

[Slow91z]

Not much difference between a 44 and a 60.

Your combo looks pretty well rounded, I would try to maximize what you have.

You could always turn to boost up some, 44's will make power pretty much as high as you can turn them.

Your next step in any direction would cost big money, realistically how fast do you want to go anyway?? What does the car run now??

 

[ADJMART]

Heading to the track in the next few weeks as soon as its not 90+ degrees outside.So i dont have an et to post.

 

[murphster]

With your combo you should be able to run 11.5-11.6s @ 113-114mph with a good 60ft (1.5-1.6). If you want to go faster than that I'd look at heads next before upgrading the turbo. Looks like some people have had good results with the new billet BB turbos with stock stuff and a tight converter though. But those turbos aren't cheap either so heads would have to be considered. TE44s have been high 10s with heads and a good IC.

FYI, I usually tune for low 1500 EGTs on pump gas and alky. I add enough alky to get rid of knock and then take out fuel to lean it out, usually starting with EGTs in the mid to upper 1400s as a starting point.

As far as race gas plus alky.... On the smaller turbos heat seems to be the biggest enemy and alky does a good job of negating that. On something like a 44 and smaller turbos some of the fastest times have been on just 93 pump gas and alky. You can always throw in a few gallons of race gas as a precaution. On small turbos, most run faster on alky and pump gas versus race gas because of the cooling effect. Because of that they usually don't go back to race gas with alky and I haven't seen someone really try to see if there are gains of alky plus race gas on a small turbo. My guess is that the gain would be minimal and not worth the hassle.

 

[TURBO 6]

Let's move this to the Alky forum.....

 

[Razor]

razor,what kind of timing numbers would you expect me to be able to run with my setup? I am at 25lbs of boost now with 25/24 degrees timing with no knock and 10.8 on my wide band at wot.02's are around 780.alky knob at 7.
Also you said my turbo is limited.Should I go with something like a te60 and a higher stall to get more out of it?

Your numbers posted are solid. Race gas may allow 1-2 extra degree's.. not that it may make more power. Just like adding boost.

The only way is to play with it at the track and see how it traps MPH wise 1/8 and 1/4. That will be the tale of the story.

From this point up.. its big $$$. 61 would be next step up.. but I doubt it makes more power at 25 psi than what you have.. on a stock longblock the plug is the heads and cam.. and then engine wear.. like ring sealing.

Not many stock longblocks go faster than 11.0-11.2. Thats the wall. Some have gone into the 10's.. but as the years progress and the mileage goes up on the motors.. you hear less of these stories.

If your car was here in Florida running 25 PSI boost on a stock longblock.. it would run 11.8-12.0 in the Summer and dip into the 11.5-11.6 in cooler weather with a high 1.5 low 1.6 60 foot.

 

[Razor]

Wanted to add.. 30+ psi is need on a 66/67 turbo to get you in the 10's.

Remeber the stock cam is limited to 5k rpm's. So the guys running the numbers typically lock the converter at the line and lug the motor down when it hits second. **** into D at 5k.. ride it out locked.

Keeping the car this twisted up on boost like this ends up popping the hg's sooner than latter. But thats part of the game.

 

[ADJMART]

Gonna buy some drag radials for the strip this week.I know its not related but should I go with a 275/60/15 or a 255/60/15 for the best possible 60ft time?
This is on stock wheels.
Thanks for all the help