Rear Main seal installation....help!

[Freddie's Buick]

Anyone understand how to install the split-lip type rear main seal or has done this before?

The instructions say install the grooved end toward the front of the engine. I followed the instuctions to the letter. After turning the car on it leaked. I took it out packed it with a little more silicone sealer and it still leaks!

It is'nt the end cap seals since there is no trace of oil residue. The oil residue is coming from the seal!

Now on to the third time........I installed it so the lip faces the back of the engine! AHHHHRRRGGG!

It still leaks! Now I may have to take the motor out, remove the crank and try the old wax type seal....has anybody ever gone thru this crap! Are the split-lip types that unreliable? I tried Kenne Bells and Fel-Pro.....they're pretty much the same only that Fel-Pro seems better....Can anyone help?

 

[TR Custom Parts]

The lip must go towards the front of the motor! Shouldn't be leaking if you used the correct seal.

 

[KEVINS]

Are you SURE it's not the cap? I thought the same thing until I removed the cap and saw that some of the silicone wasn't where it needed to be... You NEED to PACK the grooves on the side of the cap REAL good and place a thin film on the cap surface where it sits against the block. Just keep it away from the bearing..

ks

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Alright...... so after I tried it with the groove facing the back I yielded negative results. I still had leakage. I'm glad GN Boosted told me I had it right the first time.

In addition to possibly not placing the end seals properly and, or not enough sealant, my oil pressure stands at 50 Lbs @ 950 RPM's idle, could the additionl pressure cause leakage? (And it is substantial).

 

[Intercooler]

So you are doing it in the car. I always rotate the end of the seals about 1/4" or so in the CW or CCW direction before bolting the cap down (puts the seal parting lines in a different spot than the cap/block parting line). When the seals are in I put a smear at the cap block interface but not near the bearing to prevent seapage there. From there I torque the cap down to 50 lbs. and insert my tube of RTV with funnel shaped end into the side channels (never use side channels!) of the cap and squeeze it full until I see a thin bead come out on both the inside and outside of the block cap (don't over-do it!). Torque the cap on down and let it cure (very important!). If you have time to make a trip to the parts store get a tube of "The right stuff" in place of the RTV and it will set up in about 10 minutes. You may have to cut it off the next time the cap needs to come off but it shouldn't leak

 

[KEVINS]

Originally posted by Freddie's Buick
In addition to possibly not placing the end seals properly and, or not enough sealant, my oil pressure stands at 50 Lbs @ 950 RPM's idle, could the additionl pressure cause leakage? (And iit is substantial).

Clean all surfaces with thinner. Get rid of the end seals and fill the grooves with silicone. Make plenty sure you fill the grooves up. Make sure you get enough silicone in the corners of the cap where the chamfer is. Place a dap on the seam of the seal halves and on that flat surface towards the back of the block. When you tighten the cap back on make sure you see silicone squeeze out between the cap and block on the back side of the block... Then let it sit overnight to dry...
Too much oil psi will not cause your leak.. I second the thought that you had the seal in correctly the first time...

ks

 

[motorhead]

Boy are you in luck.

I just did this last night. Granted mine is on the stand.

I used the Fel-Pro Kit. The whole thing... including the side strips and pins.

In order to get the block half of the stock rope seal out we had to undo the main caps and "pop" the crank to get it out. It was stuck good.

Anyway:
Popped the cap off.
Got old seal out.
Cleaned all surfaces with "degreaser" and razor blade.
Installed "lubricated" new seal.
Used fine steel wool to clean crank surface that rides on seal, 1/2 @ a time.
Put fine layer of RTV on main cap in line with seal...
Reinstalled cap with "lubricated" side strips in place.
"Hammered" side strips down the balance of the way.
Installed pins. (which pushed the S/S down further.
Left it over night. (very tired)

In the morning before sticking pan back on:
Placed a moderate layer of RTV over RMC "crack" and filled S/S divets as well.
Installed new FelPro 1-piece pan gasket.
Done.

We'll see how well it worked out.

Personally, I feel, that if you didn't clean the crank to seal surface, or "lubricated" the seal, or both, you may have ripped the seal.

I had this happen with my MCSS, the rear main seals were getting eaten up like nachos at a Super Bowl party... all because the case hardening on the seal surface had broken down, rusted, and was chewing the seals.
Look into this!

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Thanks for the heads up......

But I followed the instructions to the letter. The split-lip seal is fine, (I've got two anyway). I use lacquer to clean up the area.

I am assuming that it's the end seals giving me the problem. The Kenne-Bell end seals are made of soft RTV and slip all over the place when I try to put the cap back on. On the other hand, the Fel-Pro end seals are made of hard rubber and are pounded in with steel pins.

I have'nt tried the Fel-Pro end seals yet....I like the idea of filling the end groove cavity with RTV. Problem is that that's an overnight thing. (Don't like the down time). I'll also try to off-set the lip-seal a 1/4 as Intercooler suggested. By the way, ( Intercooler, who makes "The Right Stuff")?

Also, the cap still is a tight fit even without the end seals. So I have to tap it back on to the block with the wooden side of the hammer. I think I'm going to lightly file the cap's end for an easier fit.

Mr.T.....hope you don't go what I'm going thru....I'm so close to finishing, yet this minor set back has costed me my entire long weekend....

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Another suggestion-Could you have accidently installed one half of the seal correctly and installed the other half the wrong way? It is easy to get disoriented while working under the car. You are saying the leak is substantial so could this be the problem? I wouldn't file down the ends of the cap as I believe these are supposed to be an interference fit so the cap doesn't walk around, Correct me if I'm wrong guys!

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by Freddie's Buick
Thanks for the heads up......

But I followed the instructions to the letter. The split-lip seal is fine, (I've got two anyway). I use lacquer to clean up the area.

I am assuming that it's the end seals giving me the problem. The Kenne-Bell end seals are made of soft RTV and slip all over the place when I try to put the cap back on. On the other hand, the Fel-Pro end seals are made of hard rubber and are pounded in with steel pins.

I have'nt tried the Fel-Pro end seals yet....I like the idea of filling the end groove cavity with RTV. Problem is that that's an overnight thing. (Don't like the down time). I'll also try to off-set the lip-seal a 1/4 as Intercooler suggested. By the way, ( Intercooler, who makes "The Right Stuff")?

Also, the cap still is a tight fit even without the end seals. So I have to tap it back on to the block with the wooden side of the hammer. I think I'm going to lightly file the cap's end for an easier fit.

Mr.T.....hope you don't go what I'm going thru....I'm so close to finishing, yet this minor set back has costed me my entire long weekend....

Do not file your cap or block, this is your register and keeps the cap from moving around. It is a good thing if it fits tight! If you need to be going in 30 minutes get the right stuff at any Autozone or NAPA and it is made by Permatex. When I did my girdle the cure time on the can said about 5-6 minutes so I had to work fast! Good luck!

 

[motorhead]

Honestly I don't care if it leaks. They all leak. Just means that I'll always have fresh fluids in her

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Thanks fellas.....read up on it a little more and to file is to err! So I left it alone.

Anyway I tried all the suggestions and to no avail. After beating myself to death with this foolish gizmo I am begining to wonder why did I ever go with the neoprene seal? It is'nt the end seals that leak. It's the seal itself. Now I have two neoprene seals, (useless as they are), to decorate my tool box.

Even the Fel-Pro instructions hint that it may be a crap-shoot. Quote: If this alternative method results in unsatisfactory performance then the rope packing seal must be installed..... It also goes on to say that the stock rope pack is desiged to accomodate a wider range of tolerances then the split-lip design.

On some cars they work fine and there may be others that the OEM seal works better. Mine might be in the 'others' catagory.

It's a darn shame this happened. I had it out to install a newly cut crank now I have to rip it out again......oh well...

 

[Freddie's Buick]

BINGO PROBLEM SOLVED!


Here's the deal..... I farmed out the block to be boiled, bored, aligned honed and the cam bearings replaced. Well, they forgot to put the rear cam cap. When I pulled the engine it was clear as can be.......oil dripping from the cam rear.

Fellas, this is the first time I ever rebuilt an engine completely....I am now beating myself for missing this one! AARRRHHHGGG!!

I don't blame the guys who machined it I can't control their mistakes. But me, on the other hand to of missed this.....major
F*#@-up!

I don't know if anyone out there will go as far as I have in doing this, ( I like it...it's fun! ), but if someone does.....READ THIS!!

Thanks guys for helping out......I guess I'll leave the neoprene seal on!