Rear view mirror light hookup question

[Bruce Urie]

Hey, fellas, haven't posted in a while. While this question isn't the most techical one here, forgive if it sounds stupid. I'm installing a rear view mirror with the lights on the bottom (both sides of mirror) in my '87 Grand National. Mirror has three wires coming out: orange, white with orange stripe, black. I know that I need to run the orange to power at the aux power box, and the black, I made it a ground to the t-top frame. Does the white with the orange stripe go....where? I took off the t-top trim, found three wires running from the driver's pillar panel, across the windshield and along the t-top support rearward. Orange, white with orange stripe, purple.I puntured the orange wire with a needle, ran a test light to ground, opened the door...nothing. Door closed...nothing. The interior lights did come on when door was opened. Test light...nothing.I did the same with the white/orange stripe...the test light lit, then when I opened the doors, the test light went out. Interior lights came on, test light went out. Purple...nothing at all. The Regal wiring diagrams say nothing about the white/orange stripe wire or the purple. I want the mirror lights to come on when I open the door or using the dimmer switch, and I want the mirror lights to come on using the two switches on the mirror also. I tried getting to the door switches from inside, can't reach them. I know I sound like an idiot, amazing how I've just confused myself...and while I was grumbling over the shop manual, flipping through it reading wiring diagrams, ,my loving wife suggested "why don't I ask the experts on the TurboBuick.com website I've always been talking about? They are smarter than the fortune I spent on the four big shop manuals that give me a partial hernia everytime I pick them up" (And she's right) I'm taking her advice, (as I usually do, she's the most level headed one in our relationship and most reasonable) even chancing the possibility that my stupidity will be greatly noticed by all. But, yes, you guys are the experts, so can you give me some friendly advice on this to hook up my mirror lights? I can't believe I forgot a lot about basic wiring, 10th grade class. I guess that's what happend when I turned 60 years old the day after Christmas
Any of you guys hooked up this mirror in your turboBuicks? It seems it wasn't an option in the Grand National, but recently I've been wrong about a lot of things...correct me if I'm correct.

Any help from any of you would be greatly appreciated.:wink:

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[MeanBuicks]

The three wires you located are definitely the ones you need. Leave the black mirror wire grounded. Hook the orange mirror wire to the orange vehicle wire. That's powered through the CIG/CLK fuse full time for courtesy lighting. Hook the white/orange mirror wire to the white/orange vehicle wire. This wire is routed through the dash light switch.

If it's not working, make sure the mirror itself is working and make sure the two rear, c-pillar interior lights work on your car.

 

[Bruce Urie]

Mirror lights hookup

The three wires you located are definitely the ones you need. Leave the black mirror wire grounded. Hook the orange mirror wire to the orange vehicle wire. That's powered through the CIG/CLK fuse full time for courtesy lighting. Hook the white/orange mirror wire to the white/orange vehicle wire. This wire is routed through the dash light switch.

If it's not working, make sure the mirror itself is working and make sure the two rear, c-pillar interior lights work on your car.

Greg, thank you kindly. I did go out in the garage and tested the mirror lights, hooked the wires up to a 12 volt DC source...the mirror lights only light up when I tie the orange and white with orange stripe together at the + terminal of the battery and the black at ground. With ground hooked to frame, touching individual wires to + source would not light up the mirror lights. Only if both of them are together at + source. The rear inside lights all work fine in the pillar, and also all footwell lights. Are you SURE by my cutting into the two wires on the t-top bar (orange and white with orange stripe) will make this mirror light work? I'll try it tomorrow night when I get home. I just hope this works, as I still don't understand my previous test light procedure (piercing orange wire to ground, test light will not light, piercing white/white with orange stripe, test light will light, but go off when I open doors) Can you explaing this to me please, as I'm a confused dweeb here.:redface: By the way, Thank you, Greg, I appreciate your help.

 

[Bruce Urie]

Lighted rear view driver mirror

The three wires you located are definitely the ones you need. Leave the black mirror wire grounded. Hook the orange mirror wire to the orange vehicle wire. That's powered through the CIG/CLK fuse full time for courtesy lighting. Hook the white/orange mirror wire to the white/orange vehicle wire. This wire is routed through the dash light switch.

If it's not working, make sure the mirror itself is working and make sure the two rear, c-pillar interior lights work on your car.

I just have to ask again to be sure before I cut into the t-top wires...so this will be the last I inquire about this...I just have to be sure.
The orange wire on the t-top pillar, with a test light on it to ground, will not light the test light, ignition off. When I open the doors, it will not light the test light. The white wire attatched to the orange wire, with a test light from it to ground, will light the test light, doors closed, ignition off, but when I open the door, the test light goes out, the interior lights go on. I originally said that this white wire had an orange stripe on it...I was wrong, my fault, bad eyesight, I guess. Can anyone here tell me if I ran the power wire of the rear view mirror to the aux fuse box, (I have the proper connector) and if I should splice into the white wire that runs to the rear via the t-top bar? I'm just a cautious person and somewhat dumb:redface: and need to make sure that I do it right the first time. Greg, I appreciate your help and suggestion, don't get me wrong. But, can you please tell me why my test light results are coming out this way?

Can anyone help me here, please? Straighten me out here?

Bruce '87 Grand National (with me forever)

 

[salvageV6]

First off I have no idea which mirror from which car or what year you have.

And I have no idea how it works without testing it or you testing it.

HOWEVER IF it works off grounding the lead to turn on the lights and the orange wire is hot into the mirror at all times that makes sense. As well as a black ground wire and there should be switches on the mirror to turn on the lights via that black ground wire. All that is plausible and makes sense to me. Verify it with testing.

Now on to some facts, the WHITE wire with NO I repeat NO orange stripe is the switched ground from the door pins so that is good to use if the mirror has a switched ground lead to light the mirror lamps. It would be the right wire for that purpose from the door switches which supply GROUND not power to light the dome lamps which are HOT at all times which is why you are reading +12 on the white wire throught the lamp into an open circuit with the door closed. Open the door and the white goes to ground and current flows through the lamp.

Why you have a dead orange lead up top is beyond me as perhaps it's an unconnected astroroof harness or the like, I would have thought that would have +12 on it at all times from the radio/clk fuse.

Anyway OUT OF THE CAR, at the battery you need to verify the mirrors proper +12 power at all times and ground leads and switched ground operation.

IT IS POSSIBLE that the mirror could use switched grounds at the map light switch and some sort of switched POWER to light the lamps for door opening.

I doubt it will work with the Buick setup if this is the case.

Again I have no clue what mirror you are using or how it's wired internally to be used with the car but I can assure you the solid white wire is a switched ground lead.

If you can open it up and take detailed pictures of the wiring scheme we could figure it out easily.

At the battery I would try the orange to +12, the black to a good ground, and try the orange/white to ground with your hand on/off like a switch to see if anything lights up.

Also check to see that the thing lights up with the orange on +12 and the black grounded with the switch on the map light(s) themselves.

 

[Bruce Urie]

First off I have no idea which mirror from which car or what year you have.

And I have no idea how it works without testing it or you testing it.

HOWEVER IF it works off grounding the lead to turn on the lights and the orange wire is hot into the mirror at all times that makes sense. As well as a black ground wire and there should be switches on the mirror to turn on the lights via that black ground wire. All that is plausible and makes sense to me. Verify it with testing.

Now on to some facts, the WHITE wire with NO I repeat NO orange stripe is the switched ground from the door pins so that is good to use if the mirror has a switched ground lead to light the mirror lamps. It would be the right wire for that purpose from the door switches which supply GROUND not power to light the dome lamps which are HOT at all times which is why you are reading +12 on the white wire throught the lamp into an open circuit with the door closed. Open the door and the white goes to ground and current flows through the lamp.

Why you have a dead orange lead up top is beyond me as perhaps it's an unconnected astroroof harness or the like, I would have thought that would have +12 on it at all times from the radio/clk fuse.

Anyway OUT OF THE CAR, at the battery you need to verify the mirrors proper +12 power at all times and ground leads and switched ground operation.

IT IS POSSIBLE that the mirror could use switched grounds at the map light switch and some sort of switched POWER to light the lamps for door opening.

I doubt it will work with the Buick setup if this is the case.

Again I have no clue what mirror you are using or how it's wired internally to be used with the car but I can assure you the solid white wire is a switched ground lead.

If you can open it up and take detailed pictures of the wiring scheme we could figure it out easily.

At the battery I would try the orange to +12, the black to a good ground, and try the orange/white to ground with your hand on/off like a switch to see if anything lights up.

Also check to see that the thing lights up with the orange on +12 and the black grounded with the switch on the map light(s) themselves.

salvageV6: Thank you for your helpful suggestion. The one that made sense was :"At the battery I would try the orange to +12, the black to a good ground, and try the white/orange stripe to ground with my hand on/off like a switch to see if anything lights up."

This was the result:
Black to ground
Orange wire to +12....result...the mirror lights light up (one on each side) when I turn on thier respective switches next to the lights.Then I can turn off the mirror lights using these two switches on the mirror.
Touching white/orange stripe wire to ground by hand...results...the two mirror lights light up, (with mirrow switches in off position) then go off when I lift white/orange stripe wire off ground.
I forgot to clarify the mirror light...it's a GM, black, rearview mirror, with twin reading/map lights with a toggle switch for both. Kirban sold those in 2002. I believe if you look further down this post on the past related "rearview mirrors" a few of them that I clicked on has pictures of the one I have. Quite a few guys here were selling them back then. But it is a GM rearview mirror, looks exactly like the one that comes with the '87 Grand National except for the flush mounted reading lights/with switches under the mirror.
How about if I ran the orange wire from the mirror to the fuse box, then the white/orange stripe to the white one on the t-top? I'll wait and get your opinion first. And again, thank you kindly. I will go back out now and test again that orange wire running up the A pillar and back down the t-top bar.

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[salvageV6]

I think you have it right.

Orange to battery power, I would fuse it 3A-7A if connection is goint to a BAT terminal in the fuse panel, NAPA has Belden brand tapoffs that plug into those locations as well as a different terminal for the IGN tapoffs which you don't want for this maplight but might for other switched applications.

And the black to a good roof ground metal point.

And the orange/white stripe mirror wire to the solid white switched car ground lead and you should be good to go.

Just rememeber you will kill your battery if you leave the lights on, and they aren't as easy to see if they are 'on' as the solid or astroroof cars with the big bright map lights.

Orange wire may have power on it for sure, get through the insulation on it with a sharp probe or a needle and a clip lead, just wrap a piece of black tape over the spot you pricked after you are done.

 

[Bruce Urie]

I think you have it right.

Orange to battery power, I would fuse it 3A-7A if connection is goint to a BAT terminal in the fuse panel, NAPA has Belden brand tapoffs that plug into those locations as well as a different terminal for the IGN tapoffs which you don't want for this maplight but might for other switched applications.

And the black to a good roof ground metal point.

And the orange/white stripe mirror wire to the solid white switched car ground lead and you should be good to go.

Just rememeber you will kill your battery if you leave the lights on, and they aren't as easy to see if they are 'on' as the solid or astroroof cars with the big bright map lights.

Orange wire may have power on it for sure, get through the insulation on it with a sharp probe or a needle and a clip lead, just wrap a piece of black tape over the spot you pricked after you are done.

Hey, salvageV6, I got the mirror lights AND the vanity mirror lights up and working! You guided me in the right direction concerning touching this wire to ground by hand. I really don't like to probe around and touch wires if I don't know what in hell I'm doing (the case here). But then you got me thinking... the whole answer was right in front of my face...this page I have out of the '87 Buick service manual I have hanging right above my workbench. It shows component location views. It's a picture of C453, a big plastic connection cluster just to the left and above the fuse block, driver's side. It's connected to the fuse block battery side through a power acc circuit breaker, 30 amp. This is the block where I hooked up my power seat, and it has slots for other accessories. I had taken it to the junkyard to look for the male connectors that I needed to put in the power seat and anticipating other accessories as well. C453 has an upper row of slots, on always, and a lower row of slots for two wire connectors, switched, and the magic word staring at me in the face the whole time was..."Feed and SWITCH for lights". I had the two wire male connector...had one orange wire and one white wire. Since I had the whole upper trim out of the car to see all the existing wires and trying to figure out what...I just ran an orange wire from the mirror with a parallel white wire from the white wire of the mirror, along the windshield, down the A pillar, and right next to C453. (taping them with electrical tape every 5 inches) Then I soldered the male connector to the two wires, inserted it into one of the lower slots of C453. I did the same with the vanity passenger visor mirror wire. (orange) Only used one connector and put it in one of the top slots of C453. I ran the black ground for the rear view mirror lights into a small hole I drilled in the windshield header panel. Taped all the wires up...hooked up the battery... zowie!!! It worked! The rear view mirror lights come on when I open the door, shuts off when door is closed, comes on when I use the dash dimmer switch. And the lights work independently using the two switches on the mirror. The vanity mirror works great, too. I couldn't have done it with out your guidance. Thanks, all of you, ever so much. A lot of wiring, soldering, but worth it. Now I didn't have to cut the existing wires, just left them alone. You don't think I still need an inline fuse now do you?
This service manual I've been recommending...it's terrific. I just had to read, and THINK...with the assistance of salvageV6 and MeanBuicks. Thank you very much. I also plugged those wire tapped holes with clear RTV. Thanks for reminding me.
Rather long post...just wanted to try and show this to others who may be thinking the same thing, putting in mirror map lights, and vanity visor lights.
All TurboBuick guys should have this service manual. (by the way, did I explain all of this OK?)

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[MeanBuicks]

I just have to ask again to be sure before I cut into the t-top wires...so this will be the last I inquire about this...I just have to be sure.

Bruce, Sorry I haven't been back to this thread in a while but I'm glad you got it working. I don't know why you had to go the route that you did though especially if your rear pillar lights are functioning.

I installed a three-wire GM mirror in the T-Top car that I previously had by simply tapping into the same wires that you initially found in your car. I also installed a similar mirror in my current Astroroof car the same way.

The important thing is, you got it working now. It was one of the best mods I had done on the T-Top car because, as you know, those lights in the back don't help at all up front.