Steve Wood
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- Jul 18, 2001
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Is that because your step mother is a wolf and no one jacks with you?
Red Armstrong's new MAF setup
- Thread starter Warp6
- Start date
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Is that because your step mother is a wolf and no one jacks with you?
Warp6
Mine since '92
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- May 25, 2001
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pics anyone?
In a nutshell,
The Extender has to work with one of the newer MAFs. The newer MAFs Can read to 510gms/sec.. What a Translator, and extender chip does is allow the GN ecm to about see that range of airflow. How exactly it is to that figure is wrapped up in the code changes. I believe the general statement is that you can double what the Direct Scan gm/sec reading is to figure what your actual flow is with an Extender.
The newer MAFs have a different frequency range, and the transfer functions aren't linear, I think. So that's part of the magic to getting it all to work together.
Update
Spoke to John @ Quad Air today. Looks like it will be another 30 days before unit will be ready for market! Per John the plan is to start with about 40 units, price could be a fuction of demand. If more orders are placed - price could vary. But I think the first units will be pricey!!
The unit will be able to work with 55,72, & 83 lbs. injectors. More dyno time is needed to work on the middle range of the fuel cruve. Most of the work for the unit is beng done at Quad Air with only about two outside vendors being used.
I have placed my order - can't wait - set fuel pressure @ 17 lbs to desired O2 or EGT range - and let the system take over up to 30 lbs of boost -
Hurry up Red!!!!
James
Spoke to John @ Quad Air today. Looks like it will be another 30 days before unit will be ready for market! Per John the plan is to start with about 40 units, price could be a fuction of demand. If more orders are placed - price could vary. But I think the first units will be pricey!!
The unit will be able to work with 55,72, & 83 lbs. injectors. More dyno time is needed to work on the middle range of the fuel cruve. Most of the work for the unit is beng done at Quad Air with only about two outside vendors being used.
I have placed my order - can't wait - set fuel pressure @ 17 lbs to desired O2 or EGT range - and let the system take over up to 30 lbs of boost -
Hurry up Red!!!!
James
Re: Update
Sounds interesting, but what about the timing? How is that changed?
Originally posted by CPAKCP
I have placed my order - can't wait - set fuel pressure @ 17 lbs to desired O2 or EGT range - and let the system take over up to 30 lbs of boost -
Hurry up Red!!!!
James
Sounds interesting, but what about the timing? How is that changed?
stangbanger
New Member
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- May 28, 2001
- Messages
- 100
The timing on my DS files using Red's MAF looks pretty much the same as runs using a stock MAF 106 chip. The new setup works well. I am very impressed with it. I set all new personal bests in BG this year using it.
Mike Licht
I was here first
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- May 23, 2001
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New?...... MAF
The Ford MAF's converted for GN's were for sale many years ago, by me. They were Pro-M Mafs that used a circut that was devolped for Pro-M and bought by Pro-M, by, suprise, Bob Bailey when the electronics they designed would not work. We flogged this technology for a while but there was 3 problems:
1. 7 or 8 years ago when we did this everyone said we were crazy since the stock MAF was perfect and no one would EVER need anything different. Sales were poor (Red at the time was one of the biggest opponents to changing the MAF and one of the most outspoken about it)
2. It needed a custom chip that would only work with that unit.
Customers hated that
3. The sensors had way to much tolerance to be consistant and 1 would pick up the car 4 tenths and the next would slow down unless we made a new chip. Hopefully they have figured out a way to fix that. But folks that have the Granitelli units (Pro-M) and some of my Ford buddies say this is still sometimes a problem.
The Translator was born to fix the problems with the Ford units.
Now I will be the first to say that Red is a super smart guy and a true force in the Buick world, but to say this is completely his deal and idea is just wrong. It was done before and he bad mouthed it.
I truly hope he gets it working and has much success with it.
I find it funny how things change in this deal.
Mike Licht
The Ford MAF's converted for GN's were for sale many years ago, by me. They were Pro-M Mafs that used a circut that was devolped for Pro-M and bought by Pro-M, by, suprise, Bob Bailey when the electronics they designed would not work. We flogged this technology for a while but there was 3 problems:
1. 7 or 8 years ago when we did this everyone said we were crazy since the stock MAF was perfect and no one would EVER need anything different. Sales were poor (Red at the time was one of the biggest opponents to changing the MAF and one of the most outspoken about it)
2. It needed a custom chip that would only work with that unit.
Customers hated that
3. The sensors had way to much tolerance to be consistant and 1 would pick up the car 4 tenths and the next would slow down unless we made a new chip. Hopefully they have figured out a way to fix that. But folks that have the Granitelli units (Pro-M) and some of my Ford buddies say this is still sometimes a problem.
The Translator was born to fix the problems with the Ford units.
Now I will be the first to say that Red is a super smart guy and a true force in the Buick world, but to say this is completely his deal and idea is just wrong. It was done before and he bad mouthed it.
I truly hope he gets it working and has much success with it.
I find it funny how things change in this deal.
Mike Licht
Steve Wood
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
- Messages
- 2,338
The only constant is change.
stangbanger....I don't want to appear as a skeptic, but don't you think the weather may have had something to do with your new times? You guys were running in below sea level conditions and virtually every( fast) car there did new bests.......the one car from Phoenix did the same (10.5's or so.....same as a 10.8 here)
maybe a tryout in "normal", ambient conditions would be beneficial for comparison purposes
not trying to badmouth anything, but more testing is called for before we declare this the next coming............
maybe a tryout in "normal", ambient conditions would be beneficial for comparison purposes
not trying to badmouth anything, but more testing is called for before we declare this the next coming............
stangbanger
New Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
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- 100
azgn,
I never said the MAF gave me the new best ET and MPH. The weather definately helped, as did the MAF, rebuilt trans and 9/11 TC. The MAF was proven to give .2 minumum on one car, at the same atmospheric conditions, early in the week in BG. On my car, the O2 numbers were virtually flat with Red's MAF, the entire run, when graphed on DS. No top of 3rd gear lean out. This benifit should save a lot of motors and help those who don't have the ability or patience and time to burn chip after chip correcting fuel curves. Also, the boost building on the line was dramatically improved due to the reduced restriction in the intake tract. Taking fuel pressure out of the tuning equation is another great benefit.
I never said the MAF gave me the new best ET and MPH. The weather definately helped, as did the MAF, rebuilt trans and 9/11 TC. The MAF was proven to give .2 minumum on one car, at the same atmospheric conditions, early in the week in BG. On my car, the O2 numbers were virtually flat with Red's MAF, the entire run, when graphed on DS. No top of 3rd gear lean out. This benifit should save a lot of motors and help those who don't have the ability or patience and time to burn chip after chip correcting fuel curves. Also, the boost building on the line was dramatically improved due to the reduced restriction in the intake tract. Taking fuel pressure out of the tuning equation is another great benefit.
Re: New?...... MAF
Gee, I wonder if Mike will get a late night phone call telling him he's full of crap and that Bob is a thief/liar, cuz this is pretty much what I said in the first page of this thread. Although, I guess I did insinuate it was a translator copy BEFORE I talked to Bob and found out EXACTLY what this was....
I reiterate, guess I'm glad I dont use a MAF anymore....
Wheres my buddy Ron in all of this? Oh yea, mikes number is on his website... If anyone else needs my number, ask ME. My email is jtesta1966@aol.com
Gee, I wonder if Mike will get a late night phone call telling him he's full of crap and that Bob is a thief/liar, cuz this is pretty much what I said in the first page of this thread. Although, I guess I did insinuate it was a translator copy BEFORE I talked to Bob and found out EXACTLY what this was....
I reiterate, guess I'm glad I dont use a MAF anymore....
Wheres my buddy Ron in all of this? Oh yea, mikes number is on his website... If anyone else needs my number, ask ME. My email is jtesta1966@aol.com
If your leaning out in the top of 3rd, and comparing it to a chip that does, hmmmm, that doesn't seem like a fair test.
No chip burning with a Translator Plus, just rotating a dial. How much effort is chip burning?. It's hardly more then typing and you're acting like it work or something. 200 bucks give or take, gets you going, and that pails in the over scheme of things.
I'd really like to see some numbers showing where the difference in MAFs is enough to change the spooling characteristics.
Even if you peg a MAF there are ways to compensate.
One other item of note, is what makes you think the oem NB O2 sensor has any idea of what is actually going on?. rememer it is backpressure and EGT sensitive.
If you want to fairly compare devises or chips, it would seem that both would need to be optimised.
