Replacing my head gasket for the first time.e

[DeltaBravo]

I'm amazed it didn't find it's happy place after you started the car.


How much run time did it see off to the side like that?


also, inspect the end of that pushrod CLOSELY to see if it's still spherical. I'm guessing there has to be a booger (highly technical engineering term) somewhere on the edge of the oil hole to hold it there.


also, while you have the intake off, pull each lifter one at a time and make sure they have convex bottoms with some plate glass.

Run time- a couple of small trips around the neighborhood attempting to tune but never could because of immediate Knock as soon as any boost was introduced...I mean as little as 5lbs.

I have inspected both the lifter and rod carefully...looking for any damage. That lifter looks a little flat, will need a new set. The rod seems fine. Looking down in the engine, the cam lobs seem ok. I have seen worse. Maybe I will take some pics of the cam and post them for review...or maybe I won't. I kinda want to play ignorant to avoid spending more money...

 

[Mr.Spool]

Run time- a couple of small trips around the neighborhood attempting to tune but never could because of immediate Knock as soon as any boost was introduced...I mean as little as 5lbs.

I have inspected both the lifter and rod carefully...looking for any damage. That lifter looks a little flat, will need a new set. The rod seems fine. Looking down in the engine, the cam lobs seem ok. I have seen worse. Maybe I will take some pics of the cam and post them for review...or maybe I won't. I kinda want to play ignorant to avoid spending more money...

Mill the heads or you will be pulling it apart again if you push it

 

[earlbrown]

Run time- a couple of small trips around the neighborhood attempting to tune but never could because of immediate Knock as soon as any boost was introduced...I mean as little as 5lbs.

I have inspected both the lifter and rod carefully...looking for any damage. That lifter looks a little flat, will need a new set. The rod seems fine. Looking down in the engine, the cam lobs seem ok. I have seen worse.

So the lifter is already going flat?.... If so, you need more than lifters. You said 'the came lobes seem OK'. If you used a dial indicator I'm cool with that. If you used a visual... I'm going to say the engine needs to come out, stripped down, cam bearings knocked out, block cleaned and start again.


I know that doesn't sound fun, but if you've got an engine full of ground up cam lobe, that's the only path.

 

[DeltaBravo]

Thanks for the replies gents. As far as milling the heads, I am not at that point in this build. My goal is to just do absolutely what is necessary to get her running again with mild cruses and a couple of fun pedal stomps here and there (15 lbs) max. I was under the impression, cosmetics are the best to use if you don't mill the engine or heads. Again, I don't have a goal of low 10's on a unrealistic budget...I just want the option of taking her out on a Saturday morning for a cruise. Maybe have her running for the next Buick's and Baits.

I looked at all the lifters, they all show the same normal wear (mostly flat) with a slight convex still...so not to bad. I have definitely seen worst lifters in my time. Earlbrown, I completely understand that visually inspection of components should include precise measuring equipment. However, a wiped cam lob is very easy to 'see'. In my case, there is no unusual wear on the lobs or bearing surfaces. So I am going to purchase 12 new lifters and run with what I've got.

But this brings me too my original concern. Other than the most obvious conclusion about how the rod was not centered on the lifter...improper installation. What, if any, other possibilities would cause the rod to shift from center to the side of a lifter? I just want to make sure I am covering all possibilities.

Thanks again,
Great community and love this car.

 

[earlbrown]

Cometics are the worst thing to use on unmachined decks and heads.


A mirror or piece of plate glass is plenty precision enough to make sure the lifter bottoms are convex. If they're flat or concave you'll know it. If they are concave, it doesn't matter how much.



As far as throwing in a new let of lifters for the hell of it, you're really playing with fire.

 

[DeltaBravo]

Cometics are the worst thing to use on unmachined decks and heads.


A mirror or piece of plate glass is plenty precision enough to make sure the lifter bottoms are convex. If they're flat or concave you'll know it. If they are concave, it doesn't matter how much.



As far as throwing in a new let of lifters for the hell of it, you're really playing with fire.

sorry...I miss-spoke. I didn't use cosmetics. I used some Victor Reinz.

Your probably right about the lifters. We shall see. Pending the new ones don't come out of the box defected, I believe I will be alright for another few years to come. I will keep ya posted.

 

[Ttype6]

sorry...I miss-spoke. I didn't use cosmetics. I used some Victor Reinz.

Your probably right about the lifters. We shall see. Pending the new ones don't come out of the box defected, I believe I will be alright for another few years to come. I will keep ya posted.

I advise you to call Mike at TA and ask his advice about putting new lifters on an old cam. He'll have some dos and don'ts to share with you that could make the difference between success and failure. It's easy to fail when doing this,and if you do,you will have metal pieces from twelve lifters and twelve cam lobes not one.

 

[DeltaBravo]

well...it is already done.

i have already replaced the lifters. I soaked them and applied some lithium grease on the matting surface for the initial break-in.

I will call him monday. Hopefully I will be ok.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DeltaBravo]

Everything is back together. Did a compression check on the number 6 cylinder prior to start up and BOOM! 155 PSI...just like she used to be. Compression is back up to normal.

I've got all the fluids filled back up. No leaks. Primed the fuel system...again no leaks.

Now I will just need to start her up and properly break-in those lifters. Any advise?

 

[ek02]

Put some camshaft break in lube in the oil (Comp Cams has one) and prime the oil system to get it circulating. Bring the RPM up to 2000 for about 20-30 minutes just like breaking in a new cam and keep your fingers crossed. I got away with new lifters on an old cam many times on Fords at the dealer back when oil had lots of ZDDP. GM cams were a little more troublesome.

 

[earlbrown]

Your probably right about the lifters. We shall see. Pending the new ones don't come out of the box defected, I believe I will be alright for another few years to come.

No. I am right. And that really sucks. It's almost time for another GN to be taken off the road.


The new ones did come out of the box defected. And it doesn't take years for a compromised valvetrain to show it self. That's the bad part.

When the first of the 12 lobes start to fail, it's going to take out the engine AND the turbo along with the oil cooler. Unless, of course, your original lifters has a failure, in which case the fatal damage has already taken effect. Getting all that grit under control is going to be time consuming and expensive. The block will need to be torn down to bare cast iron, cleaned, and built from the ground up.

 

[DeltaBravo]

earlbrown,

You are a total buzz kill.

But for the record, I filled up with a oil product specifically designed for the break-in process and I added some zinc. Started her up and ran it at about 2k RPM for 20 mins.

She sounds better than ever. Idles better than ever. More responsive and overall seems healthier. Haven't driven her yet but I think she will be ok.

SHE's ALIVE!

 

[DeltaBravo]

Just to give a closing to this endeavor.

I double checked all fluid (level and condition). Checked for any leaks. Connection and general condition of anything and everything.

Started up with no hesitation this morning... sounded good and decided it was time to put some miles on her. I opened up the gate and took her on the road. I drove for about 60 miles of combined highway and city (stop and go) conditions. She ran really good. No strange sounds, smells or leaks. Oil pressure is good, oil is clean, water temp is good and clean...

I did a couple of full throttle pulls (15 lbs boost) in third gear and I was showing slight signs of retard (less than 1 degree), but no knock. I also did a couple of pulls from a stand still and again, no knock. The entire time the water temps never went above 170 and oil pressure was always strong.

After pulling into the garage, I double checked all the fluids. Oil is still clean and at the proper level, water is clean and full. I think she is good to go...now I just need to tune.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

Congratulations, hope all goes as well in the future. Good luck and keep on boosting.

 

[DeltaBravo]

UPDATE!

The lifters were a bad idea. Earlbrown...my apologies, I am a fool.

To everyone else, just don't do it!

Long Story short. Disassemble the motor and found many things wrong with it, not just the lifters.

 

[earlbrown]

How much damage are you finding?


If you were using the factory oil cooler lines running to the radiator, take it off. DO NOT use it again. Check the turbo CLOSELY for ANY indication a wheel touched the side housing (both intake and exhaust side).


The rest of the damage is on the engine. Go ahead and get your mind set for the BARE block to get a serious cleaning. And by 'bare' I mean one big chuck of iron with NOTHING attached to it.


....then go from there. There's nothing on that car that can't be fixed.