Retard Degrees question

[BFlat]

When I finally wised up and hit Recall on the SM the O2 counts were 8.15, but Retard Degrees were 6.3. This was after 15lbs. of boost from a rolling start. No audible knock. All other SM readings are fine. TT chip for stock injectors. Am I boosting on thin ice here? Don’t want anything to go poof. Thanks

 

['87 Turbo "T"]

The ESC/knock system is hearing something. Could be real knock, could be false knock, as the knock sensor is just a microphone & the module a filter.

That means that the ECU is pulling timing to prevent knock. A great rule of thumb is you tune for 0 knock, as any knock is no good. You don't need to hear knock for it to be happening, matter of fact if your hearing it, it's too late. If it is real, things can go poof real quick as you're only at 15 pounds. If you only have 91 octane as an option I'd turn the boost down.

You can look to see if anything is hitting anywhere, causing the false knock? Is it during trans shift points? It could be vibrations, a wiring issue, etc. Knock real or false can be a bit of a wormhole to go down & a bear to figure out.

 

[BFlat]

Thanks for the reply. You are correct in that I only have access to 91 octane. Not sure how to turn down the boost. WG actuator is new. It’s NOT the heavy duty version and the rod is backed down with zero pressure on it. How else can I back off the boost?
2 more questions: I read someplace that the SM needs at least 3 seconds of WOT throttle to register retard on recall. True? I’m chicken to hold it there that long if it’s knocking.
I noticed that the WOT reading on the TPS is low at 3.8. What effect might that have?
Please keep the info & ideas coming. I appreciate it.

 

[XracerX]

TPS should be at 4.2v minimum to 4.8v maximum at WOT. 3.8v doesn't put it into power enrichment mode.
You need to adjust the TPS with the key on engine off so you can read it in SM. It will take 2 people to make it easier.
Just make sure that its around .42-.48v when your not pushing the pedal at all.
15 PSI is TOO much for 91 octane.
Read the TPS and wastegate section. Click on basics below.

Basics

 

[BFlat]

Thanks. How do I lower the boost? Wastegate rod has no tension on it, but I still get 15 lbs.

 

[XracerX]

its in the wastegate section on how to lower it to 12 PSI or just add octane boost

 

[XracerX]

I'm gonna guess your TT chip is made for 92-93 octane therefor has more timing that 91 octane can't handle. You just need better gas to start with or get the chip redone for 91 octane.
If you pull the chip out and look underneath it there is a number that you can contact Eric with and verify what combo that chip is burned for. ALSO It should say right on the chip what octane its for. I can't believe that there is no 93 or 92 octane gas stations anywhere near you.

 

[BFlat]

its in the wastegate section on how to lower it to 12 PSI or just add octane boost

Thanks. I’ll check to make sure the correct Y connector is in there tomorrow & will switch the hoses if needed - even though it’s a buggar to get those back on there.

 

[BFlat]

I'm gonna guess your TT chip is made for 92-93 octane therefor has more timing that 91 octane can't handle. You just need better gas to start with or get the chip redone for 91 octane.
If you pull the chip out and look underneath it there is a number that you can contact Eric with and verify what combo that chip is burned for. ALSO It should say right on the chip what octane its for. I can't believe that there is no 93 or 92 octane gas stations anywhere near you.

Here’s what’s in there. This chip plus a Scanmaster were the first things I bought when I got the car last Spring.
TurboTweak Classic Chip v5.7 - Buick/TTA
Car Type: 86/87 Turbo Buick
Chip Type: Street (intended for pump gas only)- Read below
Fuel Octane: 91

 

[XracerX]

OK so the chip is out of the picture. Its good for 14-16 PSI on 91 octane.
Fix your TPS volts so they are above 4.2v minimum with the pedal all the way down.
That will get you the extra gas needed when its in Power Enrichment mode.
Make sure your floor mat is not in the way when you floor it. It tends to move foward toward the pedal and screw things up.
Whats your fuel pressure at vac line off?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

And the plugs look like??

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Post your SM readings with the engine warmed up in Park. You need to find out if your fuel pressure is rising with boost 1 for 1. How old is your fuel pump? You can lower low/high gear timing via Erics chip. It's in his instructions, or you can check my vids on how to adjust it.

 

[RUQWKNF]

Also, does the car have a bigger in-tank fuel pump with a hot wire kit? If not, those are pretty much mandatory pieces needed to keep it alive with 91 octane fuel.

You could run Boostane Professional octane additive now and see if the knock goes away. But honestly that's just a bandaid for not having the proper fuel system pieces. It will help, but it not the ultimate solution. And if the car still has factory injectors, IMO, those gotta go. You're dealing with fuel injectors that are at least 37 years old and potentially barely hanging on. Not to mention if it has the stock fuel pump or not that's in the same category.
XracerX is correct, you need to adjust your TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) to get it to read .42 - .46 volts engine off key on and 4.2v - 4.6v wide open throttle with no floor mat underneath the gas pedal. This way the system can properly fuel the engine under wide open throttle.
And depending on the age and condition of the adjustable wastegate actuator and condition of the vacuum hoses and y fitting, you might not be able to get the boost to go below 15psi.

Give us the run down on what's done with the car, as far as aftermarket engine parts and or fuel system parts.

- Patrick

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Patrick is absolutely correct about the original injectors. Time for them to go. Voltage may not be up to snuff as well to power the pump. Close enuf ain't good enuf with these cars.

 

[BFlat]

Update: Found 93 octane. Adjusted TPS. Floored it at 55 up to 85. Did SM recall & got 7.89 O2 with 5.6 retard.
Will check AC 44 plugs & replace with 43s gapped at 30. Yes?
Pump, IAC, coil pack & ignition module, WG actuator & hoses are all new.
I have new injectors, chip and wiring harness from Eric, but install will have to wait awhile.
In the meantime, do you see anything in these SM readings taken at idle on warmed up engine that jump out at you?
Thanks! I love this list & the folks on it.
AF-5, Battery 13.7, INT 128, BLM 129, TPS .42 & 4.36, IAC 23,

 

['87 Turbo "T"]

Update: Found 93 octane. Adjusted TPS. Floored it at 55 up to 85. Did SM recall & got 7.89 O2 with 5.6 retard.
Will check AC 44 plugs & replace with 43s gapped at 30. Yes?
Pump, IAC, coil pack & ignition module are all new.
I have new injectors, chip and wiring harness from Eric, but install will have to wait awhile.
In the meantime, do you see anything in these SM readings taken at idle on warmed up engine that jump out at you?
Thanks! I love this list & the folks on it.
AF-5, Battery 13.7, INT 128, BLM 129, TPS .42 & 4.36, IAC 23,

So you’re doing all this on a stock chip?! My suggestion would be to park it or no boost until you get the parts installed.

You’re asking for trouble.

 

[XracerX]

AC CR43TS spark plugs gapped at .032 works.

 

[BFlat]

So you’re doing all this on a stock chip?! My suggestion would be to park it or no boost until you get the parts installed.

You’re asking for trouble.

No it’s not the stock chip.
TurboTweak Classic Chip v5.7 - Buick/TTA
Car Type: 86/87 Turbo Buick
Chip Type: Street (intended for pump gas only)- Read below
Fuel Octane: 91
With the exception of injectors, all the parts I listed are new & installed.

 

[BFlat]

I forgot to add - New fuel filter & adjustable fp regulator set to 43 lbs. with vacuum line off.
Goal has been to make it run as well as possible first - then think about the go-fast stuff.
To quote my Dad - “We’re missing closer”

 

[TurboTGuy]

In Phoenix you can only get 91 premium, too.