Rule changes


Senior citizen
I've got a car in my garage that is less than 3000 pounds, with cage and floor pans.
Fully assembled full of fluids? With driver? Meeting all of the current TSM rules?

I can see getting there building a purpose built class car from the start. Unfortunately most of the cars in the class have evolved through the years.


Well-Known Member
Staff member
It was 3000 pounds ready to go without driver before I added rack and pinion, race seats, tubular core support and got rid of the drum brakes.


Senior citizen
How bout this maybe?

• Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least:
• 3200 lbs - Iron GM production 109 block any configuration of head
• 3400 lbs - Stage motor cars

I would not like to add any weight to cars if at all possible. If anything we will just have Rob run 32psi in his rear tires.
I really appreciate what you are doing with the class Paul , and this is just an observation, but just this new weight proposal would give aluminum head cars a huge advantage over iron heads. At 3200 lbs , the more capable aluminum head cars (95% of the field) would have another advantage of being 100-125 lbs lighter than my stock configuration car. I think there needs to be 3 weight categories like the original intent when stage blocks were allowed in. I also agree with not adding weight to any particular combo

109 with iron heads

109 with aluminum heads

Stage 1 or 2 iron or aluminum block with production style heads

I think there should be a 200 lb spread between configurations. Unless we can come up with another advantage for the less capable combos, or some other penalty for the more capable combos. I'm not talking about forcing stage cars to run a stock location intercooler!
John, you running iron heads is the same as me running a 3 bolt turbo, its a choice. And there is no advantage to running stage heads at this level especially on a 109. Scratch the stage 2 head idea.


Staff member
I am thinking we vote on this maybe:
3000lbs 8445 heads 109 block
3200lbs 109 block with any heads
3400lbs everything else buick v6 with production style heads


Senior citizen
John, you running iron heads is the same as me running a 3 bolt turbo, its a choice. And there is no advantage to running stage heads at this level especially on a 109. Scratch the stage 2 head idea.
Yes, definitely a choice. But I made that choice to take advantage of a weight break, along with trying to get the iron head record. Originally it was 3250/3450. If I was building a new car I would agree with Paul's weight proposal, but I can't get 300 lbs off my car.


Active Member
You guys are getting further away from the original intent of the TSM class....entry level race class using a 109 block with a 70mm turbo. Now the class has evolved into Stage blocks, 72mm turbos, mini tubs, talk of M1 fuel, bla, bla, bla. Rules being changed to fit a particular person's car or ban a competitor's car. Whatever happened to building your car to the rules vs lets change the rules so my car fits?

That's why TSL was created. Stage block, production style heads only and 76mm turbo.

The you step up into TSO. Stage blocks, any style Buick head, 88mm turbo.

Billy T.
Billy, I see where you are coming from but in the short amount of time I have been coming to the GS National I see the car count and amount of people attending fading year by year. I believe some classes will have to "change" just to keep a car count up. TSA (TTS) seems to be running THS due to it dying out. TSM seems to have evolved to cover some TSL rules. If everyone ran all theses different classes we would have a hand full of car in a lot more classes. With our cars being limited in the years they were produced, i don't see a time when our numbers will go up.


Staff member
So.........what are we doing? Vote on the stuff proposed or not? Only a few that participate in the class have been active here. I would like to get this wrapped up soon.