Rule changes

[johnplogii]

I've got a car in my garage that is less than 3000 pounds, with cage and floor pans.

Fully assembled full of fluids? With driver? Meeting all of the current TSM rules?

I can see getting there building a purpose built class car from the start. Unfortunately most of the cars in the class have evolved through the years.

 

[sackracing]

It was 3000 pounds ready to go without driver before I added rack and pinion, race seats, tubular core support and got rid of the drum brakes.

 

[johnplogii]

How bout this maybe?
Weights

• Minimum car weight w/driver must be at least:
• 3200 lbs - Iron GM production 109 block any configuration of head
• 3400 lbs - Stage motor cars

I would not like to add any weight to cars if at all possible. If anything we will just have Rob run 32psi in his rear tires.

I really appreciate what you are doing with the class Paul , and this is just an observation, but just this new weight proposal would give aluminum head cars a huge advantage over iron heads. At 3200 lbs , the more capable aluminum head cars (95% of the field) would have another advantage of being 100-125 lbs lighter than my stock configuration car. I think there needs to be 3 weight categories like the original intent when stage blocks were allowed in. I also agree with not adding weight to any particular combo

109 with iron heads

109 with aluminum heads

Stage 1 or 2 iron or aluminum block with production style heads

I think there should be a 200 lb spread between configurations. Unless we can come up with another advantage for the less capable combos, or some other penalty for the more capable combos. I'm not talking about forcing stage cars to run a stock location intercooler!

 

[forcefed3.8's]

John, you running iron heads is the same as me running a 3 bolt turbo, its a choice. And there is no advantage to running stage heads at this level especially on a 109. Scratch the stage 2 head idea.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Running a 109 at this point is a choice too. John, you are faster then every aluminum headed stage 2 or 109 in the class but 1.

 

[Tweeked6]

I am thinking we vote on this maybe:
3000lbs 8445 heads 109 block
3200lbs 109 block with any heads
3400lbs everything else buick v6 with production style heads

 

[Tweeked6]

Or we leave weights alone and revisit next year

 

[johnplogii]

John, you running iron heads is the same as me running a 3 bolt turbo, its a choice. And there is no advantage to running stage heads at this level especially on a 109. Scratch the stage 2 head idea.

Yes, definitely a choice. But I made that choice to take advantage of a weight break, along with trying to get the iron head record. Originally it was 3250/3450. If I was building a new car I would agree with Paul's weight proposal, but I can't get 300 lbs off my car.

 

[696]

You guys are getting further away from the original intent of the TSM class....entry level race class using a 109 block with a 70mm turbo. Now the class has evolved into Stage blocks, 72mm turbos, mini tubs, talk of M1 fuel, bla, bla, bla. Rules being changed to fit a particular person's car or ban a competitor's car. Whatever happened to building your car to the rules vs lets change the rules so my car fits?

That's why TSL was created. Stage block, production style heads only and 76mm turbo.

The you step up into TSO. Stage blocks, any style Buick head, 88mm turbo.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Billy, I see where you are coming from but in the short amount of time I have been coming to the GS National I see the car count and amount of people attending fading year by year. I believe some classes will have to "change" just to keep a car count up. TSA (TTS) seems to be running THS due to it dying out. TSM seems to have evolved to cover some TSL rules. If everyone ran all theses different classes we would have a hand full of car in a lot more classes. With our cars being limited in the years they were produced, i don't see a time when our numbers will go up.

 

[Tweeked6]

So.........what are we doing? Vote on the stuff proposed or not? Only a few that participate in the class have been active here. I would like to get this wrapped up soon.

 

[cooled85T]

Vote! I'm ready to get in the ball game

 

[Kip]

So.........what are we doing? Vote on the stuff proposed or not? Only a few that participate in the class have been active here. I would like to get this wrapped up soon.

Paul, I think you are going to have to take the bull by the horns and put up the items you are allowing to be voted on and give the racers a date to respond by and call it done.

 

[Tweeked6]

So, where were we? I was stuck in the polar vortex.

 

[johnplogii]

Is it a voting year? I know in the past we only voted on any changes every other year

 

[Tweeked6]

We will be voting on a few things

 

[sackracing]

 

[Tweeked6]

We will not be voting on Rob

 

[Tweeked6]

I am working up all the things that were discussed. We will not be voting on weight changes this year. We will take a vote very soon and I will not drag this out any further. I will have a list of names posted that can vote. Only people that have run in the last two years may vote. That is 2018 and 2017
Thank you to those that have contributed to the discussion here.

 

[sackracing]

Coilovers included ?

 

[Tweeked6]

I am currently gathering some info about coil over types for the rear axle. I have been asked about this a few times and still no one has provided any pictures to me to look at what they are suggesting. I would like to see if we can allow the stock shock location with a spring on it. I do not want to see vertical coil overs in tsm right now, I think that would be the wrong turn on the TSM road at this time.