Running Distilled Water or Isopropyl Pre Turbo Discussion

[GNVYUS 1]

I'm going to start on this earlier than I thought, next weekend.

I found a new Dynojet shop not too far away and will do my normal M15 post turbo Meth run and then two additional runs with the M2 nozzle and then M3 nozzle preturbo and see what happens to the graphs. I have a feeling I might need to lean it out some in the TT chip at WOT so I'll do a bunch of street runs with the wideband to see what happens to the AF/R's and then adjust if needed to make it similar for all the runs.

Not sure if I'm going to do it at 28psi with my race chip or at 22psi and my street setup though. I'm thinking I might go 28psi, 27 degrees with straight 110 and Meth to get the best idea if it's really pushing the turbo map since the 49 should be maxed out around there.

I'm going to mix a 50/50 of Meth and Distilled Water, that mix was kicking butt with the Diesel crowd.

BTW, I guess the TA49 is a 60 trim turbo, that's pretty small for us IMO.

I'll hit this back before I go and do a HP/TQ guesstimate before and after.

 

[Adam Connell]

SWEET! I want to try this, but Im a college kid... I read most of the post on the water injection forum today and my head still hurts from all thermodynamic lingo... My real question is: Do you really need a progressive system preturbo or could you get away with a standard single pressure system?... Also, IF you're looking for better spool up characteristics wouldn't you want a full throttle switch instead of a pressure switch? Getting to 1psi takes a lot longer for me than going from 1-20... the switch is available for nitrous systems so I dont think it would be hard to convert...

Sunday me and a my friend are going to baytown to do some shake down passes on his new TT 3-valve mustang... He is Shootin for 9.50s... 825rwhp... I started telling him about the preturbo idea and he got excited lol.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Full blast is the only way I will attempt this and I'm starting at 6psi. Since the droplets must be super small running a progressive controller is a bad idea IMO ( which makes this even cheaper to run ). The M2 and M3 pressures in a 1/8 hose with the 150psi Sureflow will push 230 and 225psi which will create the super small micron mist needed to alleviate compressor wheel damage.

If the TA49 is either a 60 or 57trim, running it to 28 to 30psi with my mods is really going to be pushing it and we'll know for sure if this preturbo stuff is for real on our cars.

The exciting thing is that a 10% power increase was on the low side for a lot of preturbo injection users, so I'm hoping I lay down over 400hp and 480tq on the first run.

 

[Adam Connell]

Cool thats what I wanted to hear, I may also start piecing together a simple kit. I just got my car back with the new downpipe and Hooker exhaust, and I a stoked.... But it's 94degrees here today and humid as all get out, and I could definitely tell the car would be much happier with some form of cooling...

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I found out the Sureflow won't put out more than 150psi so I'll do a few tests with the turn on point to see if the dyno shows anything concerning spool up etc. I'd rather have higher pressures but 150psi is still creating a very small micron mist.

And I'll take some pics of the compressor when I have the inlet pipe off for a basis to see if the injection is causing any damage.

 

[Razor]

I found out the Sureflow won't put out more than 150psi so I'll do a few tests with the turn on point to see if the dyno shows anything concerning spool up etc. I'd rather have higher pressures but 150psi is still creating a very small micron mist.

And I'll take some pics of the compressor when I have the inlet pipe off for a basis to see if the injection is causing any damage.

Says who? All my pumps will hammer 250+ PSI on water and an M15 nozzle.. so 200 PSI on a M2 nozzle is a walk in the park.

They are just not designed to hammer 200+ for extended periods of time... like 1 hour Couple seconds to spool a turbo test.. no probs.

Just get a pressure guage and dial it up with the gain knob when you hit the test button.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Wasn't your pump Julio, Devils Own said their Sureflow pushes 150psi max.

If you can get yours to 250psi that would be ideal for preturbo injection.

 

[Dust]

Wasn't your pump Julio, Devils Own said their Sureflow pushes 150psi max.

If you can get yours to 250psi that would be ideal for preturbo injection.

I think if you check their website, they say that the 150 psi pump puts out these numbers

Test conducted with a snubbed 3" Glycerin-Filled Gauge with NIST Certificate. Keeps things nice and smooth with no guessing on accuarcy.

12-30VDC Power supply at 13.25 volts. All numbers rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5.

M2 230psi
M3 225psi
M4 215psi
M5 190psi
M7 180psi
M10 170psi
M14 155 psi



They also have a 220 psi upgrade

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Ya the 220psi upgrade is a pressure switch mod that pretty much is a washer on the spring to jack up the pressure.

 

[earl3]

Any updates, Mike?

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Got an Inland Empire 3.5" driveshaft and dropping off the car at Jimmy's trans for a billet forward drum and other updates ( basic mods done around 2002 ).
I realized that this could make more power than I think and watching a driveshaft or a tranny take a dive on the dyno is not safe or worth it.:frown:

Damn me for opening this thread and having to be the guinea and buy more crap for my car. :tongue:

I'll probably do it around the 4th before I drop it off for a frame notch July 12th. I'm sort of chickening out and running the car a bunch of times on the dyno ( the last 5 years have been a GN disaster ) so I'll probably only do 3 runs and stick with the M2 nozzle since I have a small turbo and play with the turn on point to see if it not only makes more power but helps spool up, 20psi first, then 6psi.

BTW, can anyone confirm that the TA49 is a 60trim comp wheel??

 

[GNVYUS 1]

FWIW, I've started the install ( pretty easy and had other issues to take care of ) and will have pics and some road testing feedback really soon. I'm going to an October 18th dynojet session so we'll see real #'s if this works or not.:biggrin:

Recap, running a 2gph nozzle in the middle of the intake pipe, feed by a 150psi Sureflow pump, running 50/50 Meth/Water, turning on full blast around 16psi ( switch doesn't show a dead on psi # ).

I expect to see a boost creeping of at least 2psi due to the compressor temps lowering and increasing in density like Winter time boosting.

( Schwarzenegger Voice ) I'll Be Back!!

 

[DMan]

This will be an interesting test. Going outside the box is a good way to learn something new and advance the art.

So presuming this works, you get the benefit of a fast spooling smallish turbo with the efficiency of a larger turbo on the top end.

I am very curious to hear the results.

 

[Dust]

One thing to remember is that the turbo's effeciency island will be shifted, which means spraying a big turbo might not be as beneficial as spraying a small turbo, and that some have suggested that you shouldn't spray until after the turbo gets out of it's efficiency range.

 

[Razor]

Another thing.. you need to look at your line size going to the nozzle and should run a solenoid as close to the nozzle to shut it down.

The analogy is a sprinkler system.. when you shut pressure off.. its reduces the water gradually due to the hose contracting. meaning you thinks its a fuel injector that shuts OFF.. and that dribble out of the nozzle can be doozy for the turbo as its in droplet form.

One issue is misting the inlet of the turbo with finely broken up water. Other issue is having water in droplet form hit the blades. The latter is bad newz. So make sure when the system shuts off.. its off. The larger the hose, the higher the pressure, the more issue with droplet. Run the experiment with the nozzle outside the pipe.. it better not dribble.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I've considered running straight Meth to help reduce the possible issue you brought up Razor since it evaporates much quicker. Though your not WOT the compressor wheel is still hot as hell to evaporate what might have been dribbled in I suspect, again it's a 2gph nozzle so it shouldn't be that big of a droplet.

Got it all wired up today ( really easy ) and won't have a chance to drive it and test the pump until Friday.

I'll post back Saturday with butt dyno and wideband results. Old combo at 22psi/25degrees was 11.6 AF/R in 3rd gear around 4900 so I'll use that to see if this fattens things up etc.

 

[Razor]

Better take that nozzle out of the intake pipe and test fire it.. you may be suprissed how much comes out after its shut off.

The droplet.. hehe.. have a drop of water hit your eye ball.. understand the blades on the turbo are not a cuisinart/rototiller/grinder/etc.. at high RPM's having anything of size/weight impact it cant be good.

A solenoid mounted right at the nozzle may help.
HTH