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Runs on the street, not on the track!

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faster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
2,067
My T has run a best of 11.18-11-22 @123-124 mph on race gas 112 octane before alky injection with 50# injectors, translator, 3.5 MAF, 62 series tubonetics, PE front mount intercooler, red armstong pump, adjustable regulator, no cat and the usual buildup on the stock 109 block. I was running an old Jay Carter chip from the mid 90's. I bought a single stage SMC alky kit when they first came out and it was great on the street and ran 12.14 @ 114 mph on just pump gas at the track on street tires with a 2.1-60' with the above mentioned combo the first time out at the track. All this was 5 years ago.

Fast forward. Nothing has changed but I now have a complete real motor (final compression ratio 8.67-1 Weisco pisons, good rods, SS mains, APR studs, 208-208 cam) and trans build up with a new progressive SMC with two #15 nozzles. The iron heads, intake and all the assorted intake hardware have just been cleaned up, same 50# injectors, new 62 turbonetics stage V. Same 3" downpipe that splits into the two 2.5 exhaust pipes it had when it ran 11.18-22. Nothing radical!

I also have two new Jay Carter chips one street and one race chip. Jay has been great.

Car runs great on any chip on the street where you ease into the throttle to control wheelspin but don't go over 20# boost because it will begin to detonate and back out timing no matter where you set the alky kit (and it is coming on and spraying). You can never just open the throttle fully it will detonate. The O2 volts are at 770-810 so the fuel is there but the car is detonating and I don't want to hurt the new motor. All the rest of the numbers on the OTC are in the zone so I don't know where to start. Turbo is spooling quickly.

Took it to the track for test and tune BOP here in G'ville (5 passes total) and tried all three chips to no avail. 12.5 @ 113 is the best it will run @ 19-20# boost running poorly all the way down the track. Put in three gallons of race gas to no avail.

I build boost at the line but you cannot just fully open the throttle at the line and launch it, it will balk. You have to back out and ease into it like on the street to get it to run and pull hard.

Any Ideas?

Anyone ever try race gas in the alky tank instead? Or wouldn't it put enough fuel in?

Mikey
 
Well I'd start monitoring with a wideband, you can get the AEM for $220 shipped now.

How much timing is in the chip?

If you're running pump ( 91 to 93? ) with that static compression it's possible the alky isn't doing enough to suppress detonation.

3 gallons of race gas mixed with how much pump?
10 gals of 92 and 3 gals of 112 comes out to 96 oct, still not a huge difference.

Why not mix in a 50/50 premium/race with the alky and see what happens, monitor fuel pump pressure up top and a wideband is a smart investment.
 
If your O2 levels are fine, and you detonate. It needs more alcohol.

You wont detonate "IF" you have enough alky going into the motor. You can test any kit by hooking up a pressure guage in-line with the nozzles. You should contact Steve at SMC for support on his system as he may have specific tests for you to perform.

No dont put race gas in the alky tank.

May also want to contact Jay for help with his chip.

Post your findings as they may help someone in the future.
 
I wasn't inferring that you should mix the 50/50 into the alky tank, kind of came across like that I bet. 50/50 in the gas tank so you know it's real knock and then go from there.
 
Thanks guys.

I guess it boils down to it pulls great if you ease into the throttle but balks if you just floor it and never clears up even if you build boost 5-6# at the line.

I agree that with the new real 8.67-1 compression ratio versus the original 8-1 on the stock pistons are probably putting me over the top once I get to 20# boost on pump gas (93 octane) with 3 gallons 112 to 1/4 tank 93.

A friend suggested a leak somewhere in the rubber vacuum hoses under boost is causing it. Any thoughts?

Mikey
 
my last motor was close to the same compression as you and ran 29psi all day long on meth. you have other problems somewhere
 
Had some time today to mess with the Turbo.

I looked at the recorded runs in the OTC 4000 and didn't notice it the first time I looked at them but the MAF readings never went over 35/45 at launch with WOT. Causing my miss and stumble. They eventually catch up but bounce. If you open the throttle slowly they would follow sort of.

I unplugged the connections to the MAF and the translator cleaned them and hooked them back and it works correctly again. Miss and stumble over 4000-4500 rpm solved.





I flushed out all the vacuum lines, I found a piece of trash (looks like a flake of rubber vacuum line) in the vacuum/pressure line to the alky control. I also found anti-freeze and oil in some others. I'm guessing it caused a low/slow manifold pressure to the alky control resulting in it not coming on fully and providing enough alky resulting in my detonation.

I never flushed out the vacuum lines when I had the motor out for the rebuild.
I blew the head gaskets on five cylinders last year along with bending two rods when the trans grenaded and sent the motor to insane rpms.

Reminder to self get a rev limiter!

I never thought to clean them out. I never thought they would get trash in them. Lesson learned.




Took it out for a ride and it is pulling like a rocket sled again. Sliding all through first and halfway through second. Spinning so hard the street tires aren't even squealling. Banged third hard and pulled to 120 MPH with only 3-4 degrees on knock retard at 24# boost on pump gas and alky with my Jay Carter race chip!

You hear that Jay! On the race chip you sent me. The progressive alky kit is amazing. This chip pulls really, really hard right off idle.

It hasn't run like this in a long, long time. In fact it has never run this good. This new motor is amazing. I have never owned a car this fast.

Burned a quarter tank of gas, more than a quarter tank of alky and there is tire smoke all over town.


Oh Yea Baby!


Mikey
 
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