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Setting cam sensor question!!!!!!

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Danster

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
1,345
I understand you are to bring to TDC and then move it to ATDC (25*). I want to use masking tape to mark the balancer and read to cut a length 1.45 inches. Is this just under 1 1/2?? What should the .45 read on a ruler? Just want to make sure I have this correct.

Want to try and start the car today, thanks!

Dannyo
 
Thanks Steve!

I still am having trouble starting the car????

When I installed the new timing chain and gears (dot to dot) I made sure I brought the motor up to #1 TDC. At this time I also installed the balancer so I could make a mark that would allow me to identify where it was for #1 TDC after everthing else was installed back. I also noticed on my balancer the a have a square groove cut.

Here's what I've done. I placed a strip of tape (1.45") left of the square groove mark. I brought the car up to #1 TDC (square groove lined up the 0 mark). Then I proceeded to 25* ATDC (I take this to be moving the the crank clockwise). I then installed the CTS with the window facing towards drivers side headlight and installed the cap. I then turned on the ign/car off and probed the blue wire. There were a few times I had 7 volts showing, but anyway proceeded to rotate clockwise and then counter clockwise until the meter read 0 volts. I then tighten the bolt to secure the CTS.

I tried starting the car to no avail. It seems like I'm getting a little backfire :confused:

What at I'm doing wrong here???

By the way this the first time I messed with the sensor.

FYI, I don't have the intercooler connected. Would this have any impact with starting the car. Reason I don't have it connected is so I can rotate the engine by hand via the fan.

Help!!!


Dannyo
 
Starting the car without all the plumbing in place isn't easy.

I would reinstall the intercooler and piping and try it.
 
I suspect you are not on top dead center. The crank will turn twice for every one rotation of the cam shaft.

Take number one spark plug out and rotate the engine with your finger over the spark plug hole. When you feel air blow out past your finger, you will be coming up on Number one tdc.


I generally follow the factory instructions which are given in this link. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/ecmsensors/camsensor2.html

This has the sensor dropped in at top dead center and then the damper rotated 1.45". It should work as you are doing it as well from all reports.
 
I'll do that Steve.

Want to confirm on ATDC. IS this turning clockwise or counter clockwise??? Just want to be certain before I try it again.

Thanks for the help!

Dannyo
 
Unmetered air?

I reread the procedures and what you did sounds like they match up well. :)

Wish I could loan you the new Caspers cam sensor simulator thingy I'm testing.

Cam sensor in a can I like to call it. :D

PS: Put the plumbing back on it, you can still turn the motor over with the fan. ;)
 
should run without the plumbing, particularly if the maf is not plugged in. Ever pour Top Cleaner into the up pipe to clean carbon out?
 
Originally posted by Steve Wood
I suspect you are not on top dead center. The crank will turn twice for every one rotation of the cam shaft.

Take number one spark plug out and rotate the engine with your finger over the spark plug hole. When you feel air blow out past your finger, you will be coming up on Number one tdc.


I generally follow the factory instructions which are given in this link. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/ecmsensors/camsensor2.html

This has the sensor dropped in at top dead center and then the damper rotated 1.45". It should work as you are doing it as well from all reports.

Steve, I've also inserted a long screw driver through the spar plu hole and made sure the piston was all the way up for #1 TDC. Is this a good enough method to ensure I'm coming up to TDC?

Dannyo
 
Originally posted by Steve Wood
should run without the plumbing, particularly if the maf is not plugged in. Ever pour Top Cleaner into the up pipe to clean carbon out?


One of the first things I did was the spring cleaning and top engine cleaning procedure.

Just in case, I can install the plumbing. Just want to make sure the direction for ATDC, clockwise or counter clockwise???


Dannyo
 
Only after starting the car with the plumbing lined up and then holding the rev's at 2K and flipping the uppipe over to pour the stuff in. :)

The piston should be up top as you described for top dead center, BUT it has to be on the Compression stroke which means the air must be pushing your finger out of the hole as Steve has described. I'd recheck that and then put the plumbing back on. ;)
 
Not sure I understand your question...but, the tape goes to the left of the mark on the damper. Then you will have to rotate the damper clockwise to bring the end of the tape up to the pointer.

Is this what you are asking?
 
That's what I was wanting to know. Thanks! I'll try it again tomorrow.

Dannyo
 
OK guys I need your ideas/help! I tried it again this morning and still no start. I verified #1 TDC by stuffing paper in the hole and cranked the car until the paper flew off. I then set the mark to 0 on the pointer and then moved to 25* ATDC and installed the cam sensor and proceeded to adjust the volts to 7 volts to 0 as per the procedure. What am I'm doing wrong :confused:

What's the best to identify if I have spark in the plugs. I want to be sure before I try it again.


Dannyo
 
To see if you have spark, unplug #1 wire, stick screwdriver in spark plug boot and lay it next to ground. Turn it over and you should see good sparking.
 
Okay, here is a troubleshooting guide written by Jimmy Testa that makes a lot of sense to me.

"OK, to diagnose ANY car, you need to find what you have and dont have. The way *I* usually go about it (which might not be right to some people, but its methodical and consistant so I stick to it.

1) Note the check engine light (if EFI). If its not on, STOP and find out why. Listen to how it cranks. I can pick out compression problems doing this. If you are in tune to your car, you can too. Listen to the starter as each cyl comes up on compression stoke. You'll hear the starter slow down a little at that point. You bight hear deerdeerdeerdeer, where a dead cyl m ight sound like deerdeeeeedeerdeer (great sound effects huh?)

2)Depending how accessible the intake is, I'll shoot 3 or 4 seconds of carb cleaner into the plenum. Either thru the throttle body, or the brake booster vacuum port. If its a lack of fuel problem, the car may start, it may simply kick. If it does either, its time to look to fuel system (usually, although enrighening can bring out a low sec output problem too, so dont take my suggestion of fuel as law)

3) If the car kicked, I'll put a FP gauge on it. If fuel pressure isnt in spec, now you need to see why. Fuel pump, filter, resticted line, bad reg, low batt voltage, bad relay, blown fuse etc. If FP is in spec, its time to hook up a noid light and verify our injectors are getting pulsed. If youre not getting a pulse you will want to hook up a scanner and look for RPM during crank. If you are getting RPM signal, check for spark. If you're getting spark and no fuel, although there is a commanded PW (see below) you probably have a bad ECM. How fast it cranks isnt as important as the fact you get a RPM signal. Next you'll look at Coolant temp to see if it coincides with ambient )if the car is cold), and verify TPS isnt shorted to Vref which will put the car in clear flood and cut off fuel. If these all look OK, you'll want to take a look at commanded PW.

3) If the car didnt kick, I'll yank a plug wire and see if I got spark. If I got no spark, then I'll check also for inj pulse using a noid light. If I have neither its usually due to a dead crank sensor. If I have no spark, but I have injector pulse, its usually a module.
Typically:
No start - no spark, has inj pulse -> Module
No start - has spark no inj pulse -> ECM / cam sensor prob
No start - no spark OR inj pulse - crank sensor or module

Oh, and if the module is dead, I suggest putting a coil pack on it as well as most of the module failure are caused by an overheating or arcing coil.

See, its pretty cut and dry when you go back to basics of what the car needs. Air, fuel, spark, and compression. If any are missing, the car wont run. The hard part I guess is finding out what you DONT have, then finding out why. I guess I take my experience for granted, maybe it is difficult. Kinda like Me trying to learn or diagnose a Linux problem (Right Jeremy?)

Hope this helps, and if you have any ?'s, email me: jtesta1966@aol.com, or post them here so everyone mgiht be able to give some more."


Then here is Chuck's cam sensor installation guide that someone referred to the other day and seems to be close to what you are doing.

" you move the crank to 25* ATDC on the compression stroke, THEN install the cam sensor. DO NOT install at TDC, and then rotate to 25*ATDC.. you will be 25* off as the sensor gear meshes w/ the cam at that point and turning the cap only makes a mess!!

Bring the engine to TDC on the compression stroke.. BOTH valves on #1 closed. Continue to rotate to 25* ATDC.
Look at the cam sensor gear. there's a dot on it near the bottom. Install the sensor w/ the dot facing the pass. fender and the wires in the cap are pointing towards the dr headlite. Once the gear meshes w/ the cam gear, you should be close to the sensor bottoming in the cover.[ A little "sneaky cream on the o'ring helps!!] If it's still up a bit and the gears are meshed,[you can't turn the sensor shaft], it's OK to bump the engine a bit to get the oil pump shaft to mesh into the bottom of the sensor gear.Once this is done, put the cap on, and hook up the indicator lite. Turn the sensor CLOCKWISE until the lite goes out, turn it COUNTER CLOCK until it just lites. I then continue CCW about 1/8 to 1/4" and lock it down. [Lite should still be on]

HTH,


__________________
Chuck Leeper "



Hopefully the above will help you out.
 
PLUGZ FIRIN??

Danster, to see if the plugs are firing, grab a plug wire, grab your "crank" and have your GF turn the engine over..:D :D

when it's all said and done.. get a buddy or some folks around the hood, that have GN's and trade some parts around to see WTF is going on...
 
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