small shot to assist spool

[nolanator]

Hi everyone,
I read a few threads on here regarding people's interest in spraying small shots to assist in spooling. I'm one of those interested people! I now have an 86 GN with a 66mm journal bearing turbo, and i'm even considering moving to a larger unit.

My interest in nitrous i guess, stems from my experience with it. I have had a couple nitrous small block setups and and even a roots blown/ nitrous combo small block, and where as I have had turbo cars in the past, they were never anything really special. Now that I have this car, I am looking into the boost characteristics of different turbos and seeing how they will affect 60' times at the strip.

Obviously, a journal bearing turbo is going to lag behind a ball bearing turbo, but they are also half the cost, and setting aside the other issues like oil consumption, temperatures, and life expectancy of the unit itself, i don't know that i can justify spending $2500 on a turbo.

With that said, is anyone on here spraying a small shot >50 to aid in spooling their turbos or even cooling the charged air coming into the intake? I'd really be interested in hearing your take on things and if you have pictures of your setup, that would be even better!!!

Thanks!

 

[bison]

Ball bearing by itself is hardly noticeable. Maybe 100-200rpm quicker spool. I have hundreds of logs from different cars and without ball bearing. I typically see car on the two step in less than a second with a 66 turbine on a 9:1 engine. I did a log a couple weeks back on a car and I engaged the trans brake and and took the slack out of the converter than floored it. It took .8 sec to hit 18psi. This is a 66 turbine in a tang t4 ex housing on a 248ci without nitrous. If I was going for the kill on this car with would get a bigger hotside and nitrous. I've used nitrous with a 68 turbine and spool time was cut in half. In a 3 bolt a 66 turbine is usually the best. Spoolup is good and you can get most of the potential out of the wheel


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[nolanator]

Ball bearing by itself is hardly noticeable. Maybe 100-200rpm quicker spool. I have hundreds of logs from different cars and without ball bearing. I typically see car on the two step in less than a second with a 66 turbine on a 9:1 engine. I did a log a couple weeks back on a car and I engaged the trans brake and and took the slack out of the converter than floored it. It took .8 sec to hit 18psi. This is a 66 turbine in a tang t4 ex housing on a 248ci without nitrous. If I was going for the kill on this car with would get a bigger hotside and nitrous. I've used nitrous with a 68 turbine and spool time was cut in half. In a 3 bolt a 66 turbine is usually the best. Spoolup is good and you can get most of the potential out of the wheel


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awesome. I'm looking at a Turbonetics Cheetah III on a standard compression 0.030 over 231ci. i believe that turbo is a 70-71mm? I'm not exactly sure, but I have a 3200 NLU converter and I don't know if that is loose enough for the turbo, so I was trying to shortcut gettting another conveter by running the small shot. With these cars being fuel injected, and a 35-50 shot being relatively small, can I run it dry and leave timing as it is at 15psi? the car does have alky injection.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I love thinking of crazy stuff from time to time. I almost never act on these nutty thoughts. If I did......we may all be in trouble.

But what if you could inject nitrous directly into the exhaust stream? If nothing else, it should make for one bad-ass fireworks display!

 

[Mr.Spool]

With that said, is anyone on here spraying a small shot >50 to aid in spooling their turbos or even cooling the charged air coming into the intake?

yes,the stuff works great on these cars,really helps the combo that is oversized on the turbine/ex housing and makes it a responsive combo.nitrous kicks the turbo right in the a##

 

[bison]

awesome. I'm looking at a Turbonetics Cheetah III on a standard compression 0.030 over 231ci. i believe that turbo is a 70-71mm? I'm not exactly sure, but I have a 3200 NLU converter and I don't know if that is loose enough for the turbo, so I was trying to shortcut gettting another conveter by running the small shot. With these cars being fuel injected, and a 35-50 shot being relatively small, can I run it dry and leave timing as it is at 15psi? the car does have alky injection.

I don't know anything about the turbo. Usually with higher cylinder pressure getting the converter tight enough is a problem. The converter is about the most overlooked part that matters the most. I would avoid nitrous with what your trying to do at all costs or you're going to learn an expensive lesson


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[nolanator]

I don't know anything about the turbo. Usually with higher cylinder pressure getting the converter tight enough is a problem. The converter is about the most overlooked part that matters the most. I would avoid nitrous with what your trying to do at all costs or you're going to learn an expensive lesson


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I appreciate the input, and I could totally understand if we were talking about a 100 shot or more, but something like a 35 shot couldn't cause that much damage realistically, could it? cylinder pressure would increase slightly I understand, but usually, the increased power, whether it be from displacement, nitrous, or other means will raise the flashing point of a converter. For instance, my other car had a supercharged 412ci in with a converter advertised to flash at 2700rpms on this setup, and it did. After doing an extensive amount of reading, I added a 200 shot plate below my carburetor and sprayed off the line. I was only foot braking the car, so I would hold at 2500rpm, but when the unit hit off the move, my converter would tighten up around 3300rpm. I'm not sure how non lock up converters work, but the one that's coming in this new car of mine apparently stalls between 3200 and 3500rpm. I guess what i'm getting at, is the small shot may loosen the converter, but only slightly and even then it would be for the benefit of 60' times placing the car further in it's powerband. Additionally, depending on where the nitrous is injected, it could also cool the charged air drastically before entering the cylinder.

Like I said, these just seem theoretically correct to me, and I am forever in learning mode, so if i am incorrect, I'd rather it be on here than on the track.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

awesome. I'm looking at a Turbonetics Cheetah III on a standard compression 0.030 over 231ci. i believe that turbo is a 70-71mm? I'm not exactly sure, but I have a 3200 NLU converter and I don't know if that is loose enough for the turbo, so I was trying to shortcut gettting another conveter by running the small shot. With these cars being fuel injected, and a 35-50 shot being relatively small, can I run it dry and leave timing as it is at 15psi? the car does have alky injection.

Bison can build you a turbo... Why not ask??

 

[nolanator]

Bison can build you a turbo... Why not ask??

I'm new! I dont know these things!

 

[Chuck Leeper]

I'm new! I dont know these things!

U do now...Another tidbit to add to your knowledge base...

 

[Pronto]

The right turbo/converter can spool as fast as you'll ever need.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I'm new! I dont know these things!

a properly sized turbo and ex housing will go along way with a built combo and good tune ,if you want more using the nitrous for just spool is a small task especially a 35 shot and inmo should be the last thing you add after things are dialed in.what i don't see happening is that ac converter coupling in time once you start hitting it with power,understand it is the flash stall that is very important to get the combo to work best not the stall tickling the boost gauge.power comes on fast it will want to push right through the converter routinely past the range of these motors.

 

[V6sleeper]

I learned this long ago, as funny as it sounds I kept "upgrading" to Smaller Turbo's lol.. bigger isn't always better in some cases..

 

[bison]

I appreciate the input, and I could totally understand if we were talking about a 100 shot or more, but something like a 35 shot couldn't cause that much damage realistically, could it? cylinder pressure would increase slightly I understand, but usually, the increased power, whether it be from displacement, nitrous, or other means will raise the flashing point of a converter. For instance, my other car had a supercharged 412ci in with a converter advertised to flash at 2700rpms on this setup, and it did. After doing an extensive amount of reading, I added a 200 shot plate below my carburetor and sprayed off the line. I was only foot braking the car, so I would hold at 2500rpm, but when the unit hit off the move, my converter would tighten up around 3300rpm. I'm not sure how non lock up converters work, but the one that's coming in this new car of mine apparently stalls between 3200 and 3500rpm. I guess what i'm getting at, is the small shot may loosen the converter, but only slightly and even then it would be for the benefit of 60' times placing the car further in it's powerband. Additionally, depending on where the nitrous is injected, it could also cool the charged air drastically before entering the cylinder.

Like I said, these just seem theoretically correct to me, and I am forever in learning mode, so if i am incorrect, I'd rather it be on here than on the track.

With less than a 50hp shot on an NA engine I was getting 100hp worth of fuel consumption and I was out of turbo. I had initially wanted it for Spoolup only but at first it wasn't shutting off like it should have been so I rode it out a couple times. The engine would flash to about 5400 without the nitrous and almost 5600 with it. I ran a dry shot and pulled 3 degrees of timing for safety. .9g's at 80mph and over 450lbs/hr of non oxygenated fuel with a Razor Alky two nozzle. That's a lot of fuel and a lot of power. If I wasn't out of turbo to begin with the results would have been even more drastic. Pull the timing. You can always add it back in if you have to.


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[20psiofevil]

Ball bearing by itself is hardly noticeable. Maybe 100-200rpm quicker spool. I have hundreds of logs from different cars and without ball bearing. I typically see car on the two step in less than a second with a 66 turbine on a 9:1 engine. I did a log a couple weeks back on a car and I engaged the trans brake and and took the slack out of the converter than floored it. It took .8 sec to hit 18psi. This is a 66 turbine in a tang t4 ex housing on a 248ci without nitrous. If I was going for the kill on this car with would get a bigger hotside and nitrous. I've used nitrous with a 68 turbine and spool time was cut in half. In a 3 bolt a 66 turbine is usually the best. Spoolup is good and you can get most of the potential out of the wheel


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Great info once again! A lot of people see the youtube video's comparing jb to bb but fail to realize what effect 30-40psi of hot oil pressure has on a jb unit. My jb borg turbo will free spin a good 10 sec after the engine shuts off.

As for nitrous I'm adding it to my combo. It is a great Band-Aid and has many uses on a turbo v6. One thing I would recommend adding nitrous and this is my opinion, I would go with the largest turbine and ar you can stand.

 

[nolanator]

I'm a little hesitant to jump right into the nitrous thing after reading the info everyone is posting. Im going to do a little more reading into the subject, and see what the guys who are using it successfully are doing.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I'm a little hesitant to jump right into the nitrous thing after reading the info everyone is posting. Im going to do a little more reading into the subject, and see what the guys who are using it successfully are doing.

I guess I have one question for you. Don't you think you can build a TR that spools up super quick and pulls like a monster without the added complexity of using nitrous? If not....why?

If so....then why bother?

I know I have over-complicated so much during 20+ years of owning my car. Chime in if you can give me a reason for even more.

 

[nolanator]

I guess I have one question for you. Don't you think you can build a TR that spools up super quick and pulls like a monster without the added complexity of using nitrous? If not....why?

If so....then why bother?

I know I have over-complicated so much during 20+ years of owning my car. Chime in if you can give me a reason for even more.

I

I guess I have one question for you. Don't you think you can build a TR that spools up super quick and pulls like a monster without the added complexity of using nitrous? If not....why?

If so....then why bother?

I know I have over-complicated so much during 20+ years of owning my car. Chime in if you can give me a reason for even more.

I'm sure with some reading and motivation, and money, I could of course. Nitrous is just my comfort zone so if I were able to incorporate it safely, it would have a certain cool factor. Plenty of guys are pretty quick without it and I was just looking at things from a "different means to the same end" perspective. Bottom line though is if it's not practical or reasonable I'm not going to exhaust a ton of effort or money into re-inventing the wheel.

 

[getdowngranny]

I'm a little hesitant to jump right into the nitrous thing after reading the info everyone is posting. Im going to do a little more reading into the subject, and see what the guys who are using it successfully are doing.

If you are new to the turbo regal game, I would put the nitrous way back on the list of things to do or even learn about on these cars. There are some many little things that are particular to these cars to keep them reliable, drivable, and fast. There is lots of info and knowledge on this forum to last years of reading and learning. I would learn as much as you can about these cars and then learn "your" car to see what it likes. Every car is different and responds different to certain mods. After you read, tweak your car to the best of you abilities and then move forward from there. Take your time and ask any questions you may have and this forum will point you in the right direction. Enjoy the car. But keep the car enjoyable by keeping it alive and not making an unnecessary mistake. Nitrous is a good evil but not necessarily necessary on these cars. I myself am contemplating putting a small shot but I have my car pretty well and know what it likes.


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[NY Twin Turbo]

I

I'm sure with some reading and motivation, and money, I could of course. Nitrous is just my comfort zone so if I were able to incorporate it safely, it would have a certain cool factor. Plenty of guys are pretty quick without it and I was just looking at things from a "different means to the same end" perspective. Bottom line though is if it's not practical or reasonable I'm not going to exhaust a ton of effort or money into re-inventing the wheel.

It's the "cool factor" that has given me so much heartache in the past. Don't get me wrong, I love it now that it is all worked out. your comfortable with nitrous and you may like the results as well. But if I had to do it again.................NO F"N WAY!!!!!!!

Unless I did it for a living, I just don't have time or patients for added mistakes and set-backs.