SMC VS Aquamist

[TYWRAP]

Which system is better suited for high boost (6cyl. and up applications) and which is more reliable.

I have heard that the aquamist can't supply enough flow for bigger engines (3liter and up forced induction), but has a good track record of being a very well made kit and super reliable. Maybe 2 pumps would do it, but expensive!!

The SMC kit seems to be able to provide ample flow and pressure for bigger boosted engines, also has cockpit adjustability, but some kit owners have said it has some reliability issues. Any problems anyone has had?


Any thoughts from you guys? I need some reccomendations.


-Jon

 

[Steve Wood]

Steve Hill,who, along with Denis K, are The gurus of alcohol, , uses Aquamist nozzles and runs in the high 20's with quite a bit of timing. They believe strongly in the benefit of the excellent misting capabilities of the Aquamist nozzles. Steve uses 4 of them last time I looked. Not the cheapest way, but maybe the best way.

I have two of the SMC kits and highly suggest them unless one is a competent innovator and there are a number of those here. Steve H., Denis K., Steve Monroe, Steve Evans, and Bob Avellar come to immediate mind. All of them know what they are doing.

Check these two out for more info on using the Aquamist nozzles...note that I said nozzes and not kits...

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/coollinks3/index/street/smdex/denis/denis.html

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~steppa/page6.html

 

[TYWRAP]

Steve,

Great info

You run 2 SMC kits at the same time or on 2 different cars?

Think there is a way to adapt the aquamist nozzles to the SMC kit? I can't seem to find the right fitting for a nylon tube to SS line.

TIA

-Jon

 

[TYWRAP]

I found a way to hook up the aquamist nozzles!!

Looks like I may go with my own DIY system.

Thanks again Steve!! Awsome info.


I still would like to hear any opinions on the above systems.


Thanks,

-Jon

 

[CaPPY]

I've upgraded my system about 3 times in 5 years. I've finally settled with 4 Aquamist Nozzles (per recom.of S. Hill) a Shurflow pump, and a solenoid to activate my second stage.

I have 2 (1.0's) spray at 9lbs and 2 more (1.0's) at 12-13 lbs.

I had a couple of extra solenoids sitting around, so I used one. Otherwise, I'd have made all 4 activate at 12 lbs. I don't think I'd notice much difference. I'd have to check with Direct Scan for sure.

I went from NOS jets to the Aquamist setup.

The rest of the system is SMC minus the holding tank.

 

[Steve Wood]

I have the SMC kits on two different cars...

I have been thinking of going to the aquamist nozzles and using the SMC bottle, etc to supply them but I have not thought about how to adapt the hose.

I did not mean to indicate that Steve H and Denis K are the only two gurus....I should have said with regard to Aquamist.

All those I mentioned, and more, have done a lot of work in perfecting and proving how well it works.

Jay Carter was one that pushed the idea early and got good results. Steve Yaklin pours a ton of alky into his white car when it runs and was one of the early ones to get wide publicity for running 93 octane and running 25# of boost full time. He likes methanol based upon test results obtained by GM back when they were considering injection on the hot air cars. Methanol is extremely corrosive, however. It does get better with a little water added to it but is still hard on pumps unless they are made for it.

 

[turboost]

Can the aquamist's pump even handle alcohol without any problems.

 

[Steve Wood]

Aquamist does not suggest using alcohol.

Any of my comments were aimed at the nozzles only.

 

[DMan]

Harumph..well, guru, why yes..GURU, yes thats what I am, a GURU.

Thanks for the kind words, Steve.

While complete Aquamist systems are expensive, Aquamist nozzles, lines and fittings are definitely worth the money. Best place to get them is, of all places, Kansas City Saab. www.kcsaab.com. Ask for 'Brad', and tell him Denis sent you.

The nozzles are excellent. I think I recall crunching some numbers with Steve Hill early on, showing he reduced alky flow by about 5-10% by switching to AQM nozzles, yet had equivalent if not better knock control.

If I had the dough to spend, I would get two AQM pumps. If the nozzles are any indication of overall system quality, I can only imagine how nice the pumps are.

 

[Steve Wood]

Hey, Denis...and they said I ain't nice! *g*

 

[Steve Hill]

Yeah, Dman, the numbers showed less flow needed in return for much superior knock control.
Remember the (brutal) testing we did? Before we implemented your nozzle idea (which resulted in our 2nd gen design) I was bumping knock levels as soon as we shifted into OD. Using Direct Scan we documented lots of good data on runaway knock, using what was at this point our two-stage interation of the 1st gen system (this testing also proved something about the robust nature of these stock blocks <G>).
After dialing in the 2nd gen design we documented multiple runs into the 130 mph range, zero knock, 26-27lbs boost. And there are other sublte advantages also. Another tidbit of info: With a good w-a system the stock ic will take you pretty far.....
Anyway guys, Dman and I have recounted all this stuff in numerous posts... personally i'm kinda burned out repeating myself. Do a search. Lots of info.
Steve W... how can I be sure this is really you? lol Thanks for the respect, bud.

 

[Turbocars]

I don't know about which is best but I have had tremendous success with the SMC kit. It is a single nozzle, out of the box set up. When I have something working this well I tend not to mess with it too much. The AQM nozzle may be worth trying and maybe I'll do so when I install the dual nozzle SMC on my GN this year.

Having an un-opened 114K motor with just a 49, 43# injectors, THDP, stock IC w/big mouth inlet, the Ltd. probably has a high 11.3 in it through the exhaust. I may not be a 'guru' but the car is dialed in very well!

Hank

 

[Steve Wood]

You are the Combination guru, Hank, because you go so damned fast on so little, and when you hit tens on Alky, I will call you an Alky guru even if you did not design the unit!

 

[Steve Hill]

Hank knows a thing or two about performance. Anybody who can run those numbers with the parts he has is doing something right :-p Good going Hank. You ARE the TuneGu

 

[turbo]

Turbocars,
At what boost does your nozzle activate and what is the high end 24lbs?

What type and ratio of mixture do you use ?

Do you have any KR anywhere? THX

 

[Turbocars]

Ah geez guys <big blush)!

I hope some of you guys are going to Norwalk in May. I don't think I'll make BG given the time of year. I know it will be cooler (probably because of all the rain in May) but I prefer to make it a family event.

I have the pump set to come on around 14# or so, full blast. The mix is around 70% denatured and 30% methanol (dry gas). I will see 2 - 4* in the bottom of third gear. EGT is around 1550* The chip is programmed to ignor knock for the first 4 seconds I believe. Chip is a Red 106 with 22* timing.

I am pretty much done with 'squeezing' the Ltd.. I am more than satisfied with what that car was run and plan to leave it alone.

I have the GN to dial in and I am in the process of doing a RX7 transplant. The motor build for the RX7 will be identical to the Ltd. w/AI of course!

Hank

 

[Steve Wood]

Originally posted by Turbocars
Ah geez guys <big blush)!

I am in the process of doing a RX7 transplant. The motor build for the RX7 will be identical to the Ltd. w/AI of course!

Hank

It makes me feel much better to know that insanity runs rampant in the older generation. I feel much better.

Guess I need to trade my Elky for a 240Z

 

[Turbocars]

<<Guess I need to trade my Elky for a 240Z>>

Trade???? You mean ADD don't you!

Hank

 

[Steve Wood]

I have six now...I need more like a hole next to my belly button.

 

[TYWRAP]

Great info guys! (did some searching on old posts)

I decided to upgrade my fuel system (750cc injectors, twin Walbro pumps and lines, and a custom dual entry fuel rail) as well as installing w-a injection. Should be able to grab low 11's and maybe dip into the 10's (driver s skill willing )

As for the Water injection I'm going to go with the SMC kit(when the GB is under way) and use aquamist nozzles. Anyone see coolant temp differences? I'm trying to keep my temp down when roadracing. My fluidyne radiator does a great job, but by the 5th 25 minute session my temps break 200F.

you guys are W/A injection GURU's !!

-Jon