Smoking Problem

[626gn]

My car sometimes blows blue smoke out the tailpipes after idling for a few minutes after startup and I’m finding oil in the tailpipe. It doesn’t smoke a whole lot but enough to know something is not right. It also seems to come and go and doesn’t blow smoke constantly. I’ve pulled the up pipe, checked the IC, and exhaust side of the turbo expecting to find oil but both sides are as dry as can be. I also replaced the PCV (BLM’s improved but the car continues to smoke).
I purchased the TA49 fresh off a reconditioning and it has been on the car for only 3 months and 400 miles and has already developed some thrust play. ~.0313 if I had to guess. Minimal side to side play, not enough to contact the housing as far as I can tell.
My question is: should I still be looking at the turbo as the culprit even though there is no oil on either the hot or cold side? I read a post by bison saying it only takes a small amount of oil to produce smoke. Could my turbo seals have developed a small intermittent leak causing it to smoke but the oil burns off before producing any visible evidence on either the hot or cold side of the turbo?

 

[mgmshar]

Read this entire thread for the saga of my rebuilt TA49 and blue smoke. ..

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/index.php?threads/383743/

Mike

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[626gn]

Read this entire thread for the saga of my rebuilt TA49 and blue smoke. ..

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/index.php?threads/383743/

Mike

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Yup, I've read that thread before several times. Full of good info. But unlike you I'm not finding any oil on the hot or cold side.

 

[ikle]

Read this entire thread for the saga of my rebuilt TA49 and blue smoke. ..

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/index.php?threads/383743/

Mike

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

X2, my turbo never smoked, just leaked oil out of the bottom of the exhaust housing after a PTE rebuild.

 

[Heisenberg]

My car sometimes blows blue smoke out the tailpipes after idling for a few minutes after startup and I’m finding oil in the tailpipe. It doesn’t smoke a whole lot but enough to know something is not right. It also seems to come and go and doesn’t blow smoke constantly. I’ve pulled the up pipe, checked the IC, and exhaust side of the turbo expecting to find oil but both sides are as dry as can be. I also replaced the PCV (BLM’s improved but the car continues to smoke).
I purchased the TA49 fresh off a reconditioning and it has been on the car for only 3 months and 400 miles and has already developed some thrust play. ~.0313 if I had to guess. Minimal side to side play, not enough to contact the housing as far as I can tell.
My question is: should I still be looking at the turbo as the culprit even though there is no oil on either the hot or cold side? I read a post by bison saying it only takes a small amount of oil to produce smoke. Could my turbo seals have developed a small intermittent leak causing it to smoke but the oil burns off before producing any visible evidence on either the hot or cold side of the turbo?

Stranger things have happened.
Why not eliminate the turbo and possible IC with oil from the equation?
What's the TB look like?
Clean the TB with carb cleaner - and - Start up and idle without the up pipe.
Several times.

What's the PCV look like - or more exactly - the vacuum block?
Full of oil?
You wanna see a few drops of oil - look under that vacuum block

You didn't say if you were running the stock turbo / passenger side breather return.
That would do it.

Think about it - the oil is getting in the exhaust in only a few places.
Turbo inlet from the turbo
IC / Intake (again from the turbo)
Vacuum system (from the PCV)
Or valves.

Sorry - Re-read you post and it seems you have check the usual suspects.

Valves?

 

[626gn]

Correct, I already looked in the usual areas and replaced the PCV. PM'd bison and he confirmed it is possible for the turbo to smoke eventhough I could not find visible oil in the exhaust side of the turbo.

I also did a search on valve seals thinking this may be the problem and came across a post by Nick saying:

"In all the stock valve spring replacement jobs I have done, not once have the seals been replaced. If there is an issue with the valves or seals, the heads need to come off for repair.

I have seen many GN's with over 150K miles that are fine with original seals. So maybe a little oil will go through the stems, that can be a good thing to minimize guide wear.

When we do a performance valve job, that is a different story. The guides have bronze inserts installed, and are machined for PC type vs. o-ring seals.

I am very fortunate to have a GN owner as a friend and fellow racer who has been racing for years with one of his cars that has been 10.9 on the original, unopened engine. I continually use his car as an example of how good the original engine will perform with minimal internal work or changes, and how important it is to have the proper supporting parts.

The heads have NEVER been removed on this GN with over 700 track passes, and internally all that has been done is replacing the timing chain set and the valve springs also - but NOT the oil seals!

But I could be taking his statement out of context as the subject of that thread had nothing to do with a smoking problem...That said, it still doesn't mean my valve seals are ok. Whats the best way to find out?

 

[junkbrick]

Your total thrust (axial) motion of your turbocharger should never exceed .0035"...you need to have yours serviced if your measurement of .0313 is being read correctly...The thrust bearings we fit to our units start off at .0025-.0028, and most Garrett based bearing will fall between that measurement and no more than .0035" axial. The thrust bearing is not very happy if measurements exceeding the service limit is recorded...this will put heat into the rear exhaust seal due to contact between the seal and turbine wheel groove, this could cause the seal to pass an amount of oil sufficient enough to cause smoking from time to time, mainly once the engine is "warmed up"...

Hope this helps!
Reed

 

[626gn]

This does help me to better understand. Thanks for the explanation. My measurement was just a guesstimate but I know for sure it exceeds .0035.

 

[sean lawrence]

I would just rebuild the turbo

 

[626gn]

A known good turbo will be installed to see if the smoking goes away.

 

[626gn]

To close this thread out for the benefit of those who do a search…replacing the turbo solved the smoking problem

 

[Heisenberg]

To close this thread out for the benefit of those who do a search…replacing the turbo solved the smoking problem

Always good to see the end result.

And now - for cleaning that intercooler.

 

[626gn]

Always good to see the end result.

And now - for cleaning that intercooler.

It never leaked any oil on the hot or cold side that I could find so no need to clean the intercooler. Lucky me I guess you could say...Lol

 

[Heisenberg]

It never leaked any oil on the hot or cold side that I could find so no need to clean the intercooler. Lucky me I guess you could say...Lol

Ah...it must have been only a tiny bit on the hot side.
It must ave been leaking from some side - to produce your "smoking problem" ....yes?
I know you said at the beginning that everything was dry as a bone.
But surely it must have been leaking somewhere - "hot or cold side" ...ergo - changing the turbo fixed your smoking problem.
Now - for my smoking problem...

 

[626gn]

Ah...it must have been only a tiny bit on the hot side.
It must ave been leaking from some side - to produce your "smoking problem" ....yes?
I know you said at the beginning that everything was dry as a bone.
But surely it must have been leaking somewhere - "hot or cold side" ...ergo - changing the turbo fixed your smoking problem.
Now - for my smoking problem...

Correct. The hypothesis is the leak was so small the oil burned off before it got pass the turbine wheel. Good luck with your smoking problem.