Soft pedal after new Powermaster?

[watz]

Guys,

I'll start with a little history first. The car has sat for 4 years before I picked it up in October. So this winter I wanted to do the rear brakes because I was advised of a cylinder leak. So I did, which was kind of a PITA as this is my very first drum brake job. I put new S10 wheel cylinders (I got the part number off of here) new shoes and turned the drums.

I did buy a new hardware kit but one spring does touch the wheel cylinder rubber boot is that ok? Anyway, the brakes work good (I had the local mechanic check them, help adjust them and he said they look fine even with the spring touching the little rubber end a little on the wheel cylinder). I can lock up the rears REALLY easy. So I adjusted them (with help from the local mechanic), sanded a little on the drivers side and seems to be pretty good now.

So I took the car for a ride and it has a REALLY soft pedal. 4 or 5 pumps and the brake light would come on. Then the pedal got stiff.

So I knew the former owner (my brother) said the master cylinder was bad and sold a brand new power master with the car. I figured that was it so we replaced the power master bleed the brakes and did it again.

Same thing pump the breaks 4, 5, 6 times and the brake light would come on. Break pedal was super soft. Once at the end of the travel it would lock up the breaks though. That's where we stopped. Anyone have any idea?

The motor on the new powermaster runs when I turn the car on. Just the pedal is super soft all the time. It does get a little harder after hitting the breaks a few times but still really soft. The break light comes on in the car after a few times of pumping the breaks

Help turbo guru's help!!!!

TIA,
Watz

 

[suicide six]

When you say new PM,is this completely new?Pump,accum,switch?If so it sounds as if you still have air in system.Apwr bleeder or vac bleed system helps alot.These systems seem to hold the air pockets.Service the bowl correctly,depressurize w/key off pumping brakes 10 times and check fluid level.Make sure fluid level stays full during bleeding process.Ive had guys tell me they disconnected battery,jammed pole between seat and pedal and let car sit for a day.A system such as a mighty vac will get rid of your air.

 

[watz]

Complete new unit. Accum, motor, switch everything.

I will bleed the whole system again tonight. If that doesn't work is it the 25509419 valve?

 

[suicide six]

I think all you have is air in system.

 

[watz]

Well you're right but I think I maybe on to something.

I re-bleed the system and found the passenger side had a little air bleed out fin. But the driver's side would not bleed. I bleed it 7 - 8 times. Still had air, passenger side was fine (I rechecked it). But the drivers cylinder would never bleed. I am trying another new cylinder today after work. Thinking that cylinder (which did come apart on me once, is sucking air or something)?

Does that happen? I inspected the boots all looked fine. Just wouldn't bleed. I am hoping that I can slap on a new wheel cylinder and be happy. Who knows...

Anyone seen this happen? It's a brand new wagner cylinder...

 

[conn84gn]

Had paint in the hole.
I had to use a wire to clean out the nipple.

 

[zeus87gn]

Did you 'bench bleed' the new PM cylinder before you went to doing the entire system? If not, you may be bleeding for a while at the wheels. You may never get all the air out that way.

If you havn't, bench bleed it on the car. then go back and do the wheels and you should have better results.

HTH

 

[watz]

I bench bleed the master on the car.

*****************UPDATE**********************

I replaced the rear drivers side cylinder with another new one. Bleed the breaks again although only quickly. Still only air on the drivers side. Filled her full of fluid and took her for a ride. Brakes still feel soft. Stops fine but they feel soft. When I got back I shut the car off pumped the brakes 10 times and checked the fluid. Rear "buket" (my term, not sure what it's called) was a little low. I looked and the feed line to both rear cylinders where wet. So I sprayed them off with carb cleaner and will check again after work. Possibly the brakes lines aren't tight? I do get nervous when tightening that stuff in fear of stripping them out. So maybe that's it? Man.... I should have just went to 4 wheel disc!

 

[watz]

Bottom Line update

Well fellas, air, air, air, air and more air. Finally I had a friend bleed them one last time with a vaccum bleeder and all is well. She is back, I drove her to work today. She is on the road, running tough but RUNNING and that's the start of my story :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: