Sorry for my Frequent poster syndrome- 80 EGR on 82ECM

[blacknight80]

I spent the day referencing this kick ass site and comparing what I have under the hood. I have to give every one a big thanks for helping me with my painfully slow learning process. It appears that my car has an 80 motor and possibly trans in it. The turbo and carb are from the 82. I will be adding an o2 to the up pipe, the map is a simple hookup, and I think the temp sensor that is in the manifold should work for the ECM. Now I have read countless threads prompting me to never remove the EGR due to detonation. Well it has the original EGR pot behind the carb but the control valves are all gone. Will the 80 EGR valve work with the 82 ECM? What do I need to make it work? I'm really hoping this EGR doesn't stop my progress. Also There is a copper pipe that runs beside the trans dip stick and it has a vacuum line connected to it. What is it, kick down advance? I guess a better question is can I plug it?

Thanks

 

[b4black]

OK, I should have read all your posts before responding. An '80 motor is not a huge problem. The block and heads are fine. You just don't have all the ECM sensors.

A 1980 passenger side exhaust manifold will have a boss (flat spot) that can be drilled and tapped for an oxygen sensor. That's a big drill bit and tap. I took mine to a machine shop and paid $35!. The machinist was not happy when he broke the tap. Adding a bung to the up-pipe is not a bad idea.

I would leave the EGR disconnected for now. Work on sorting out the other issues. The knock it causes is while cruising down the highway, not at WOT, so it is mild won't damage the engine. Concentrate on getting the ECM back to life first.

The vacuum line along the dipstick goes to a modulator on the transmission (rear, passenger side). It affects shift points. I would try to keep it hooked up.

 

[blacknight80]

I apologize for my posts. They all started as a simple post but as time goes on they have melded into one giant cluster.....well let's keep it civil haha. Are you thinking I can make this work together. I hate to spend to much time and money on this to find out that I need the 82' manifold. I am up in Alberta and I find that gbody enthusiast are few and far between so parts become scarce. The more I look at this manifold the more I feel like I can make it work. I think I can rig up something out of the port with the vacuum temp switch. I never removed it but I think it goes right into the thermostat neck. What sensors are needed to talk to the ECM? O2, water temp, oil pressure and knock? I have the knock sensor in place and the oil pressure is in the same place as the 82'. Wonder if it sends the same signal as the 82'. The emissions are removed as I previously mentioned (in one of my other posts) which isn't a problem as Alberta is oil country and emissions test are eons away so I'm not concerned with that at all. I would also like to reiterate that someone else mucked this car up, I'm innocent I swear haha. On the up side they did put the 82' carb and turbo on it. So it's not all bad......right? My temp gauge isn't responding on the dash and I was really hoping that the single spade connector went to the ECM rather that the strange looking round one.

 

[blacknight80]

For future planning would I be able to make the 80 EGR work with the E carb. How does the EGR reduce detonation? Would I need to source the purge valves that went on the 80. Or do I need to find an 82 set up? So many questions eh? By the time I'm done picking your brain you might not have many left. I had to take my up pipe off anyways to get a few pin holes welded up so I think i will get a bung installed while I'm there.

 

[b4black]

Keep asking questions. No problem at all.

If you have the 1982 carb and turbo, then the plenum is likely 1982 as well. If it is, then hooking up an EGR between the 1980 lower intake and 1982 plenum will be impossible. In 1982, Buick when from having coolant lines to heat the plenum, to using EGR to heat the plenum. In 1980, the EGR gases went into the back of the plenum, but in 1982 it moved to the front (but the actual valve was still int he back). I know, confusing.

The plenum on the left is an early version (1978/80). On the left is a 1982/83. The early version used a little manifold (not pictured) to connect the plenum and lower intake manifold in back. The EGR valve bolted to this little manifold. In 1982, a flexible tube connected to the front of the plenum and the EGR valve was bolted directly to the back of the plenum.

From the back. The 1982 plenum (on the right) has two holes where the EGR valve mounts up. The plenum the left only has one hole where the little manifold bolts on.

 

[b4black]

EGR actually lowers combustion chamber temperatures by replacing air (and it's oxygen) with inert exhaust gases . (Even though the exhaust is hot, it's much cooler than fuel and oxygen combusting!) This reduces NOx emissions. It also reduces knocking at part throttle. At wide open throttle (WOT) it is disabled (closed), so it doesn't hurt performance.

I found out I had a bad EGR because my knock gauge (aftermarket) kept lighting up while driving around town. When I fixed the EGR, the knocking went away.

 

[blacknight80]

Is it possible they used the turbo and carb from the 82' and used the 80 plenum. I am keeping this car at my in laws (which is 2 hours away) so I wrench on the weekends do during the week Im going off of pictures and memory. But I plugged a great big 1 inch threaded hole with a plug on the front of the plenum on Saturday. It had painted tape over it. So I thought a hole on the carb/plenum cannot be a good thing so I plugged it up. There is also one on the back that already had a plug in it. I thought the EGR valve itself was on the intake manifold. Damn I wish I took a few more pictures before I took off this after noon. I'm heading back this coming weekend and I was hoping to have everything to attempt to fire this ol girl. Big hopes eh? Haha

 

[blacknight80]

 

[blacknight80]

Here's the number on the turbo housing and carb

 

[b4black]

It is possible that they used a 1980 plenum, but I think they most likely would have not unbolted they assembly and left the '82 plenum between the carb and turbo.

The 1" hole that you plugged sounds exactly correct for an '82 plenum. This would be where the EGR flex pipe would bolt into.

You can see the pipe in this picture (labeled G):

The EGR valve in the picture looks correct. You need it or a block off plate in place where it bolts to the backside of the plenum.

 

[blacknight80]

My motor definitely has the 82 plenum on it. Just like you figured. I remember the long neck off of the plenum that the egr connects to. Dumb dumb moment. Isn't that tube for heating the plenum or is this where the exhaust enters to be re burnt? I always thought actual exhaust gas enters from the plenum at the actual valve to be re burned. With this being a 80 intake there should be a delete over the egr port shouldn't there? With every Na motor I've fiddled with I always take it off and put a delete plate over it so this is new to me haha. My thought process was that a fresh mixture is better then preburnt air.

 

[b4black]

The exhaust gases go from the tube and enter the front on the plenum, then through a passage to the back. The EGR valve lets the gases move from the passage into the plenum. Basiclally the EGR valve connects the bottom port to the top port on the long neck.

There will need to be a delete plate over the opening on the lower intake.

Fresh air contain oxygen. Exhaust gases do not. Think of the exhaust gases as pure nitrogen (or pure carbon dioxide if you prefer). They take up space, but don't support combustion.

 

[blacknight80]

Ok that makes sense. Looks like she's not gonna have an egr. Hope it's not going to be to hard on the pistons. Just means I gotta haver to the mat all the time haha. Not all bad I guess. I picked up an o2 sensor and before I get a bung in my up pipe welded in I would like you to verify If it looks like one that should be on an 82-83. I'm nervous because the parts guy couldn't even find the right temp sensor. Haha. It's a single contact plug

unit.

 

[b4black]

Looks right. It will plug into a purple wire off the ECM harness.

The harness on the passenger side of the car is mostly ECM stuff. The harness on the driver's side is mostly dash lights and gauges.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

i probably have the correct plenum if you want to go back to the egr

 

[blacknight80]

Is it that serious of a problem not having egr if I run 91 octane? Are there any other options to prevent knock. I don't want to get to deep into this car as it's more of a project to keep my idle hands busy. I'm not worried about big power or anything like that just a nice cruiser that I can put to the floor every once in a while to shock a kid in a honda. Haha. I have another car that is my main show car. It's a shower not a goer.

. I had some big ideas for this girl but unfortunately it was my wife's grandfathers and it holds a lot of sentimental value to us and it has to stay the way it is. He might come back and haunt me if I put a turbo on top of the 3.8 lol

 

[blacknight80]

I've got an 80 sitting too lol. I'm buick to the bone. My dad (he's a body man) and I fixed it up bout 8 years ago while I was in high school unfortunately the bondo never bonded to the steel and the clear coat didn't stick to the base. It's a shame cause it was a hot car. Once again all show no go(Na 301). Luckily people are stupid and thought I had a gn, no one would challenge me at a red light. Haha.

 

[blacknight80]

 

[blacknight80]

I went to a local welding shop and had a bung welded into the up pipe it looks like it is gonna work just fine. And as far as the ECM temp sensor it is the same size of threads as the gauge sensor so worst case scenario it can put it in the gauge hole in order to get it running. I have enough plug holes from the plenum heating that I can put the water gauge sensor in. I was pretty excited when I picked the new ones up and realized it's gonna work just fine. Wooohooo.

 

[charlief1]

I've stayed out because Rich can help you better with stock parts and repairs. Aj and I are a little different, to say the least. In my sig is a fairly detailed post about how to make a bigger better turbo that looks as stock for those that haven't seen a draw through system before. The other thing to control knock is a J&S electronics box. It works better than the stock controller and will work with most systems. The higher The octane the better the car will run and if you check Rich's site out he's got an inexpensive alky injection that you can do without a lot of cost. Aj or I can supply you with a correct plenum if you want to get rid of the 82-83 one, but unless you live in a fairly cool climate and drive in the cold weather, you shouldn't need it.